367 How a Coffee Bench Sparked a Movement
Sandrine Somé
Co-Founder of Nile’s Coffee Club
What happens when three friends sitting on a coffee shop bench during a pandemic decide to reimagine what a coffee brand can be?
On this episode of the Visionary Life Podcast, Kelsey sits down with Sandrine Somé, Co-Founder of Nile Coffee Club, a black-owned coffee company that’s reshaping the industry by infusing every aspect of their brand with art and culture into everything they do!
Sandrine’s entrepreneurial spark didn’t ignite in a boardroom or brainstorm session. It happened way off the grid visiting her family in Burkina Faso, completely cut off from WIFI. What could have been an entrepreneur’s nightmare became her creative breakthrough.
The idea for Nile Coffee was born on a bench outside SAm James Coffee in Toronto, where Sandrine and her friends spent countless hours talking about life, work and their dreams. They recognized the gap in the coffee space and an opportunity to build something that spoke directly to their creative community.
Rather than sell coffee as fuel for the 9-to-5 grind they positioned it as inspiration for 5-9 passion projects. In a market where nearly everyone’s coffee tastes good, they decided to stand out through culture, community and meaningful connection.
Some of Nile’s biggest wins came not through big marketing budgets, but through authentic collaboration. This is your powerful reminder that success in business isn’t just about reach, it’s about resonance.
In this episode, we chat about:
Rest is a strategy
Community over competition
Follow need and not trends
Collaboration beats campaigns
Timestamps
[3:21] Why traditional structures feel suffocating and how to carve out new ways to work and live!
[09:45] How Sandrine’s early entrepreneurial sparks and how design + cafe culture helped her imagine new kinds of gathering spaces.
[19:06] How her creative deepened when she gave herself full permission to rest and go inward
[34:14] How you should be building a business that serves the future version of you, not just the present moment.
[44:10] Rebuilding health, creativity, and work life from the ground up.
[51:25] What a ‘creative commune’ could look like
To connect with Sandrine:
To connect with Kelsey:
Access the transcript for this episode:
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Kelsey [00:00:00]:
Give it a little wipe down. Just. How have you been the past few months? Been a while since.
Sandrine Summay [00:00:08]:
I know. When did we speak? Was it like, last summer?
Kelsey [00:00:11]:
I think. Yeah. We started with the DHL stuff in spring into summer, I think. So. Yeah. It's been a hot minute.
Sandrine Summay [00:00:18]:
Oh, my God. Well, nice to see you again.
Kelsey [00:00:20]:
Yeah, nice to see you too. What's been going on in your world, and what are you working on?
Sandrine Summay [00:00:25]:
So many things lately. Well, I just got back from a trip, which was nice.
Kelsey [00:00:29]:
Where'd you go?
Sandrine Summay [00:00:30]:
For a little bit, I went to Burkina Faso. It's actually where I'm from, so.
Kelsey [00:00:33]:
Oh, my gosh.
Sandrine Summay [00:00:34]:
Cool. Right beside Ghana. Like, Ivory Coast, West Africa.
Kelsey [00:00:40]:
Do you have family that's still there? Was it, like, a chance to reconnect with a bunch of people? Do you see them often?
Sandrine Summay [00:00:46]:
I don't see them often. I actually grew up here with just my mom, so, like, literally my entire family lives back home. And then I try to go. I was going, like, once a year, but then Covid happened, and tickets became absolutely insane. And then it's like, if you're not, you got to go for a month.
Kelsey [00:01:04]:
Yeah. And did you work while you were there, or were you like, I'm on vacation.
Sandrine Summay [00:01:08]:
Oh, I can't work while I'm there. It's like, I'm in the village, like, fully.
Kelsey [00:01:11]:
Okay.
Sandrine Summay [00:01:12]:
In the village, there is no WI fi, no data. I'm, like, on a hut, literally holding my phone up. Get, like, one bar.
Kelsey [00:01:22]:
Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:01:23]:
So when I'm there, it's fully off grid.
Kelsey [00:01:25]:
That must be really good for the brain and for the soul and just to leave it all behind and go reconnect with what truly matters.
Sandrine Summay [00:01:33]:
It actually is. And I think it kind of forced me to slow down because I had already been on vacation. Like, it wasn't even a vacation. It was actually just to see my family. And so I think when I was there, I was like, oh, I'm forced to kind of do nothing right now, which feels weird. And I feel guilty because I already had an actual vacation. You know what I mean? So then I'm just, like, trying to work. Can't really work.
Sandrine Summay [00:01:55]:
And eventually, after, like, a day or two, I finally just, like, calm down. I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna be present, not feel guilty about my piling to do list. But, like, you know what? It is what it is.
Kelsey [00:02:09]:
Yeah, it's crazy that we feel guilty for not doing all the time. Like, we're just trying to be humans, and we feel guilt because we're not being productive. It's like, it takes days or weeks to unwind your nervous system to be like, wait a second, like, I don't have to do anything to be a good human.
Sandrine Summay [00:02:27]:
That's a big part of what I'm learning this year, too, is that whole concept of you don't have to necessarily work as hard in order to reap as many benefits. Not that you shouldn't work hard, but it's really just this idea that you have to, like, work 30 times harder in order to make, like, 30 times more. Say, like, it's not really bad. It's more like just working smarter, which is something that a long time I think I've known, but I'm just so used to this, like, grind, hustle mode that it just never felt right. And so even though I still feel uncomfortable when I have to slow down, but I think it's in the back of my head, at least I know that I'm cognizant that I actually need to slow down and that that's not the path towards actually.
Kelsey [00:03:06]:
So I've been thinking about that a lot, too, because I'm like. I think that the hustle in my 20s and into my young 30s, that actually helped me so much. Like, the fact that I was willing to get up and work all the jobs and, like, really, like, wring myself dry each day. And I think that was required to get to a place where I'm, like, maybe I'm in a different season now where I can be smarter and, like, focus on things that are actually going to be impactful versus just, like, do all the things that I've always done for the last. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Maybe we can work smarter but still maintain that drive and that energy, but, like, compress time in a way. So.
Sandrine Summay [00:03:44]:
And I think more aligned, too, because that's the thing where same with me is I said yes to everything for years.
Kelsey [00:03:51]:
Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:03:52]:
And I got to a point where the burnout was so heavy that I wasn't even focusing on the things that actually mattered, like, from a work standpoint. So I think when we spoke last time, I was explaining to you that I do. Nile, I also have the DJ practice space that I was telling you about. And then is that your.
Kelsey [00:04:09]:
Like, you founded that place? Okay.
Sandrine Summay [00:04:13]:
Yeah. And then I was working on agency stuff that I do with my partner, so it was like all those things were happening, and those are the things that actually fuel me. But then the client work started being like, oh, I'm actually working on other people's businesses more than I'm working on mine. And then you have this like non stop guilt. Even though I love helping and servicing people with their own things, it's like then my stuff was lacking. I was like burning out. And then I was like, you know what? This is a moment. Like you said, it's a different season.
Kelsey [00:04:44]:
Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:04:44]:
Realize you like saying yes to everything actually is not even smart anymore. It's like saying this only to what is actually aligned and part of my actual growth path forward. And unfortunately that's just not necessarily helping everyone else right now on their project. It's more like putting more love into mine. So.
Kelsey [00:05:03]:
Oh yeah, we should be recording this. I. I feel like talking to me because I'm like knee deep in client work again, which I love. But it also takes me completely away from thinking about my own business strategy growth because every day I just like report into my 10 clients, make sure I keep afloat, and there's not really much creative energy after that. Unfortunately for me, you're tapped after. Yeah. Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:05:30]:
So before we get into it, what your stuff was. Because I know like we met through DHL and you're. It's the consulting. But what is the other side of that?
Kelsey [00:05:37]:
Yeah, so I mean, I take on about 24 consulting clients a year, so two a month. And we work in three month time frames. And essentially I look at their marketing strategy, mostly digital, and look at where the gaps are. Most of my clients, they're like solo practitioners. They have no idea what to focus on, how to track marketing growth. Their website's a mess. They think they have to be on Instagram and that's like the only thing they should be doing to get clients at a local clinic. So really we just look at their strategy overall.
Kelsey [00:06:12]:
I basically build out their entire marketing playbook so that they can offload it to maybe an admin assistant or the front desk person. And then we get about three months of data to actually track, like, where are they seeing trends? And then I usually support them with a monthly marketing meeting after that. So it's really just like to get the bucket of marketing for small business owners to be like, oh, there is strategy to it. And I don't have to feel like I have to be all over social media. So yeah, there's that. And then I also kind of have my personal brand with the podcast, with an email newsletter, kind of building out like just like a portal on the Internet where I share insights and personal stories and what it's been like building a business for the last 10 years. And yeah. Just kind of hold nothing back.
Kelsey [00:06:59]:
And I just want to share more about that because it seems to resonate and I don't know, I like doing that too.
Sandrine Summay [00:07:05]:
That's the side that you're feeling like, isn't getting as much love.
Kelsey [00:07:08]:
Totally. Yeah. And thinking about growth of the business where I'm not in it, like, I could leverage. Like, I get a lot of traffic to my website, but it's all for one on one coaching and like there's nothing else for sale. And I'm like, well, I'm just letting that slide because I pour all this energy into my blog and the podcast, which helps. What? And so I'm just kind of like I've created, right.
Sandrine Summay [00:07:32]:
Like writing like some sort of manual ebook. Like something that people could just like if I don't have the bandwidth or the capacity purchase.
Kelsey [00:07:40]:
Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:07:40]:
Like the. The full thing that you do, which is incredible. Do you know what I mean? Like, is there a version of that?
Kelsey [00:07:45]:
And I mean, I have it. I give it to all my clients. It's just not polished enough and I don't gift myself the time to like, establish my own products and like give them the love they need and to re record the video so that they're fresh and. Yeah, things like that. I have a couple courses. Like I teach search engine optimization and that's one of my favorite topics. But the course just kind of collects dust and it's really good. But I would need to build up my own marketing funnel for it.
Sandrine Summay [00:08:11]:
You know, Crazy. We're too busy to do the old days.
Kelsey [00:08:14]:
You can do it. Yeah, yeah. So anyways, so yeah, for today's recording, we can kind of go two different directions. Like we can exclusively focus on Niall and your role there or if you want to chat more holistically and kind of like weave in conversations about creativity and what you've been thinking about over the last few years and just the journey overall. Plus Niall, we can do that too. Like, I've done some digging on what I could find of you personally on the Internet. And then obviously I know what you guys are up to with Nile. So what feels better for you?
Sandrine Summay [00:08:49]:
I think I'm always a holistic gal. You know, it's a little bit of. A little bit of everything.
Kelsey [00:08:54]:
Yeah. Okay.
Sandrine Summay [00:08:55]:
Let's do life as well.
Kelsey [00:08:57]:
Yep, yep. Okay. I love it. So I kind of have a flow for the conversation. I think I'll just kind of kick off with some, you know, what are you up to? How are your travels then? I'M going to go into a little bit of your journey. I kind of found some really cool stuff about you and how you stay inspired and how you maintain your creative fuel. So I'll ask some questions there, and then we'll kind of weave into Niall, maybe a little bit of marketing stuff, if you're open to that, and how you guys prioritize, like, arts and culture and building the brand and the community. Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:09:29]:
Yeah.
Kelsey [00:09:30]:
Sound good?
Sandrine Summay [00:09:30]:
Go off, do your thing.
Kelsey [00:09:32]:
Awesome. Yeah. And we'll keep it to about 40 minutes. I find that, you know, we tend to keep listeners for about 35, 40 minutes, and then people drop off. So I've been shortening the episodes from an hour to 40. I think that's our sweet spot. So we'll record and then feel free to plug anything at the end. Your own personal accounts, how people can shop.
Kelsey [00:09:53]:
Nile. And we'll try to, you know, make it all about you and make sure to spotlight is on anything that you have coming up. So thank you.
Sandrine Summay [00:10:01]:
Appreciate it. Yeah.
Kelsey [00:10:02]:
Have you ever done a podcast before?
Sandrine Summay [00:10:04]:
I have never. I actually was thinking about that. I'm like, I feel like I yap with people all the time. Do not think I've done it. I've done some like. Like, interviews that you have to, like, write in your answers, but I've never actually put them on a call.
Kelsey [00:10:16]:
Oh, my gosh.
Sandrine Summay [00:10:17]:
Well, excited?
Kelsey [00:10:18]:
Excited to jam. Like, you're such a natural conversationalist, so I feel like you could have your own podcast. Well, that can be your podcast name. Love to yap. Okay. And if I'm saying your name is, It's Sandrine Summay.
Sandrine Summay [00:10:36]:
Yeah. Accent. Right. I love it.
Kelsey [00:10:38]:
Okay. Or is it so May?
Sandrine Summay [00:10:41]:
It's so me. Yeah.
Kelsey [00:10:42]:
Okay. Yeah. I just want to make sure. Awesome. Okay. I'm gonna hit a couple buttons on my end. We'll basically start recording, and we'll just flow with the conversation. Keep it really chill and fun.
Sandrine Summay [00:10:53]:
Okay.
Kelsey [00:10:54]:
Awesome.
Sandrine Summay [00:11:01]:
We go on do not disturb mode as well.
Kelsey [00:11:04]:
Yeah. All good.
Sandrine Summay [00:11:06]:
There you go.
Kelsey [00:11:08]:
Okay, Sandrine, welcome to the Visionary Life podcast. I'm really excited to be sitting down with you today. I think we're kind of getting to know each other. You and I actually had a chance to collaborate and talk about Nile Coffee and some of the marketing strategies and growth efforts around that. And that was about six months ago. So today we're sitting down, catching up, and I'm going to pick your brain on all things marketing and your recent travels and how you stay inspired and creative, because I think, like many of our Listeners, you are somebody who has a lot to give, a lot of creative ideas, this visionary tendency to want to do it all squeeze the most out of each day. So I think that we're going to have some really robust conversations. And thank you so much for being here today.
Sandrine Summay [00:11:57]:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited. First podcast.
Kelsey [00:12:00]:
Yeah, yeah, first podcast. Which is crazy. I can see a podcast in your future. So maybe we'll plant that seed today.
Sandrine Summay [00:12:07]:
Just added to the long, long list of things I'm already doing. Yes. I love it.
Kelsey [00:12:11]:
Oh, my goodness. So speaking of the to do list, you actually said that you just took one month to go travel, go step away from the hustle bustle of Toronto. You didn't even have access to Wi fi or reliable Internet. So can you just share a little bit about what you were up and maybe any learnings about yourself or the way you operate or anything that you want to take away from that vacation, that trip?
Sandrine Summay [00:12:38]:
Yeah, so like I was mentioning, it was actually about two and a half weeks, but I went to Burkina Faso, so which is Ghana, Ivory Coast, West Africa area for people who do not know. And that's where I'm from. And essentially my entire family lives there. Right. So I grew up here with just my mom and. And try to go every year in order to really just keep that connection, obviously. And there's a lot of whatsapping, a lot of like, facetiming in between, but there's nothing quite like being there. But the difficulty which I started finding more, I was building the Niles and the Estrellas and all the other work that I do is that taking a month off or even two weeks off completely is really, really tricky, especially when you're going to a remote area like that.
Sandrine Summay [00:13:22]:
And so we always go to my ancestral village, which is my dad's side, essentially, like our. My great, great grandfather, like, found that village. And so on the 2nd of February is kind of like our Day of the Dead, where we really speak about. They do a whole list of literally every single person in our village who has passed away since that time. And it took so long, but it was so beautiful and so moving and there was a whole ceremony. So that's the main reason why I went for that specific time. But like I was saying, I actually had already gone on vacation to Brazil for the first time ever, which I loved. And so I had this guilt of just being on another trip where I couldn't really access Internet, couldn't do much.
Sandrine Summay [00:14:07]:
And then you're sitting there watching Your to do list pile up and you actually have zero control over tackling it. Like even getting Internet, even like messaging people back. I'd be like, I'm going into the actual village now. I will not be able to speak to you until like this time tomorrow. And I'm also five hours ahead. So very complicated. But I think what it taught me was it forced me to slow down because I'm the type of person who sometimes feels guilt and I'm trying to get better at that when I can't do all the things that I have to do. And that's mainly because I just feel like I'm not where I have these goals.
Sandrine Summay [00:14:43]:
And when once you're not there yet or you're working towards it, you feel like anything stepping away from is bad. But I think even with Niall and the type of language that we like to infuse into the brand is like, it is important to slow down. It is important to actually go off and do all the other things that make you feel inspired. Right. So I was brought, I bring my camera there, I shot a bunch of photos, just walking around, sitting, a lot of sitting and just yapping, gossiping, drinking beer. Like that's the main thing you do in the village because everyone's a farmer, right? So when it's the off season, you just chill. So that experience and just really stepping back, I came back so inspired. Like, I came back and I was bombarding my business partners, just being like, what about this? And then this? And then I thought about this and then what about.
Sandrine Summay [00:15:33]:
And it's just like this non stop pouring of creativity that I realize is a direct reflection of that two and a half weeks that I took to do absolutely nothing and kind of, or like filled my cup with really just like beauty and conversations and relaxation, which, yeah, very important. Important.
Kelsey [00:15:52]:
So cool. I think the whole guilt piece that you're talking about is so relatable. And I really don't have the answer to that because I feel it. I know in talking to others, they feel it. And then when they go on vacation, they find themselves still tapping into emails and assuming that everything is urgent, which I think in retrospect, like, barely anything is urgent. I don't know if anything burned down while you were away, but I'm sure it was fine. Right? Like, it's okay to be unreachable for a couple weeks.
Sandrine Summay [00:16:25]:
No, totally. And it's crazy because when I work for other people. So I, I used to work in agencies too, and we always were like, why are you asking Me for this thing. Like, someone's dying. Like, literally nothing is. But in the moment, it's my own businesses. It's like this guilt of, like, I'm trying to get here and be leaving for this amount of time and not being accessible is like. It's almost like you can see it when you're in a different situation, but the moment, it's your own thing.
Sandrine Summay [00:16:51]:
Similar to when we met through the DHL program. I was explaining to you that I do brand strategy for a lot of people. Like, that's something I've done for, like, many years now. But then when it comes to brand strategy for Nile, it's almost like, because I'm so in it, I need your brain as an external person to then look at it from this holistic view and say, this makes sense. Or, what about this? Have you thought about this? And I, like, had it. You know what I mean?
Kelsey [00:17:18]:
Oh, yeah, for sure.
Sandrine Summay [00:17:19]:
That same thing. You kind of need to be outside of it in order to realize how crazy you're being and that nothing is.
Kelsey [00:17:26]:
Absolutely. And I love that you said that you came back and you felt the creative surge again. It's like being exposed to different places, different spaces, different conversations. Like, whether we want to admit it or not, but, like, we probably talk and interact with the same people Monday to Friday, and then Saturday and Sunday, you walk by the same buildings, you're listening to the same podcast, and it's like, wait, maybe the secret sauce to keeping the fire alive as business owners, as creatives, and is to literally schedule in, like, four weeks where I do not work and just block them off and gift yourself that. Because otherwise the fire can kind of start to dim. And then you just feel like, I don't know, I'm sitting down to work on this strategy for Niall, or I'm trying to figure out the new branding and it's not coming. And it's because we're just pushing, pushing, pushing. But on the other side of that, I feel like we talked about this before we hit record.
Kelsey [00:18:23]:
That push mentality might be responsible for where you are today. So how are you thinking about finding that balance between, like, the push, energy and hustle, but also, like, the chill? Sit back, let the inspiration flow. What is that going to look like in your next few weeks on a very tactical level?
Sandrine Summay [00:18:43]:
Well, I feel like something fundamental actually shifted this year because, like, we were saying again, we. We. Yep. So much before recording, but, yeah, we.
Kelsey [00:18:52]:
Should have been recording.
Sandrine Summay [00:18:53]:
It was. It's really. Last year, I had, like, probably the biggest burnout of my entire career because I was juggling working like retainer full time pretty much at a very large agency. And then I was scaling, like, we won the DHL thing. We were scaling a bunch of stuff with Niall. And then I also have the DJ practice space in Parkdale that I started and that I'm building like a backend automation for, which is like, I've never done that before and I'm working with a dev. So it was like all those things which were really important, fundamental stuff, but I think I was so stretched that it just got not fun anymore. And I feel like towards the end of the year, I went to Brazil and that was the first time I was properly taking an actual vacation with no laptop for the first time in like two years.
Sandrine Summay [00:19:42]:
And that trip really filled my cup. And I came back and I was like, never again. And so since that moment, I actually took the decision to no longer work in agency, like, at all. And so now I'm solely focused on scaling my businesses because I think for years I always held that as like, one foot, one foot out, because you have financial stability. Like, I don't want to have to depend on the income from the businesses to survive. Because to me, it's like the moment I added that financial pressure, there's so many things that would then force me to do xyz, where sometimes that's actually the push you needed. And so I'm like forcing myself to take that step. And it feels really good to just wake up and be like, wow, like, I can organize my day based on the things that I genuinely love to do.
Sandrine Summay [00:20:28]:
Like, I don't have to answer it. It feels really nice.
Kelsey [00:20:31]:
Oh, I love that. And I feel like it's such fine balance, right between having the safety net and not coming at any of your creative projects or businesses with that desperate energy of, like, I have to make this work and especially relying on it too quickly versus, like, where am I? Just playing so safe and just taking on projects because they pay well and because, you know, the agency or for me, like, consulting life, it's what we've always known, but when you cut the cord and kind of release, it probably frees up all this brain space, all this energy and bandwidth to like, reimagine your other projects and yeah, like, make major leaps there. So I don't know. I. I very much relate to like, that resistance, but also being responsible in a way, I guess.
Sandrine Summay [00:21:20]:
Well, I think always I've found personally in my life, anytime I've taken that big leap, things have Always kind of worked out like the net appeared from nowhere. I don't know where it's appearing from, but somehow I'm fine. And I think I'm like, why didn't I do this sooner? You know what I mean? Why did I allow myself to just stay in that one foot in, one foot out situation? And I think you said it's just this fear, right?
Kelsey [00:21:42]:
Yeah. Amazing. Well, I want to talk about Niall a little bit. So you guys are a black owned coffee brand and you really weave in arts and culture. And like looking through the website, I just feel like a warm hug. And I was doing dinner on Ossington with a friend the other day and of course I was served Nile espresso. And it just like gave me all the feels because I know how much energy and intention you guys put into building a brand. A coffee subscription.
Kelsey [00:22:09]:
That's different. Like, it doesn't feel like every other coffee company out there. So I'd love to rewind a bit. Where did the origin of Nile begin? What were some of those early conversations? And then how did you begin to bring a coffee subscription company to life? Take us back a little bit.
Sandrine Summay [00:22:28]:
Yeah, it's really interesting because the company actually started as I was moving to Dubai. So I got. I got a job offer in the middle of the pandemic. And it was one of the craziest things I've ever done because everyone's like, are we gonna all die? What's going on? Panic. And then someone was like, move to Dubai. And I was like, yeah, why not? So I accept this job in the middle of a shutdown, move there. And they just kind of were so much more. They were weird about COVID Everything was kind of open, but for some reason you had to wear a mask as you were walking outside, but not in the establishment.
Sandrine Summay [00:23:02]:
It made no sense. No sense at all.
Kelsey [00:23:05]:
It never made sense.
Sandrine Summay [00:23:06]:
Yeah, but so I was moving there and Jamal and Taher, who are my business partners, they, we've met through like coffee met at Sam James, sitting on the bench, just chatting and kind of this natural community that was built on this bench outside where, like daytime where you look around and you're like, do none of us have work to do? Like, how are we for hours just talking about everything? And I think that's really the core feeling that we wanted to then carry into what we were doing. Because at the same time, we kind of didn't feel like there were other. There are some but not enough black owned coffee businesses. And as three people who are like, so Deep into that. I worked at Pilot for years, you know what I mean? So for me, coffee has always been a natural part of my life. I worked as a barista for years and I was often like one of the only people of color, right. And so I think Jamal also shared that same experience, having worked as a barista for years. And Taher comes from a more like logistics operations background, but as a deep upper coffee as well.
Sandrine Summay [00:24:12]:
So we kind of bonded over that gap that we felt that there was or even brands that are kind of speaking to the community that we have, which is, it was very much a creative community that was just were the people who had nothing to do during the day. Apparently we're the people who were on the bench who had work, but it was a little bit more flexible. And so we really use that moment to almost like inspire each other. And I would leave those conversations feeling so energized and just like ready to tackle my day. And so as I was moving to Dubai, Jamal Taher kind of approached me because they had had a conversation and we were like, we want to start this thing. It's going to be with you. We know you're leaving, but let's still do it. And I honestly hesitated because I was like, how am I going to run this when I'm 8 hours ahead of you guys and I don't even know if I'm moving back? It's a pandemic.
Sandrine Summay [00:25:04]:
But again, I used to say yes to everything. So said yes. And about like four and a half, five years later, like, here we are, which is incredible. And I'm really, really just excited about what we're doing. And I think that excitement even came back after I stepped away from all the other things that I was doing because that hardship of just like everyday grinding and feel like you're seeing the change, you're seeing the progress you're seeing, people respond. But being an entrepreneur, as you know, is just like working so hard and then seeing a little bit of an uptick and then you work a little bit harder and then you see a little bit of an uptick. And then eventually everyone kind of understands the vision and they tap in, which is the point that I think we're all trying to get to. But that in between part where you're doing all these other things, you're very stretched and you're just not necessarily seeing the results that you want is really difficult.
Sandrine Summay [00:25:56]:
But I think I stepped back from it. I was like, wow, we've built something so beautiful that feels, really, feels like A nice mixture of all of us, because we all are also DJs. We love coffee and arts in a very meaningful way. And I think that intersection of all those things is kind of what we're trying to reflect. But then also that telling people to kind of take that pause, sit on that bench, talk with your friends, like, take that moment of inspiration really actually came from how we met and then got into coffee as a business. So, yeah, that's a little bit about Niall and our history and how we've kind of gone to where we are and then we met through a contest that we won.
Kelsey [00:26:37]:
Crazy. Oh, my goodness. There's so many things I want to double tap on from that story. And I think the more I've recorded, you know, over 350 podcasts and the amount of times that an origin story includes conversation with friends, either over coffee, a beer, a warm beverage, glasses of wine, like, it's incredible when we think about that age old phrase that says, one plus one does not equal two. It's infinite. It's like when you get different minds together and you all have different backgrounds and passions and you start, like, brainstorming, dream storming, it's just so cool. What can come of it? And then to actually say, I think we have something here and to move through that very challenging piece of, like, bringing it to life is just really inspiring. And I think that so much can be said for just getting together with good friends over a beverage and, like, the rest is history, basically.
Sandrine Summay [00:27:35]:
So that's really cool. I look back and I'm like, how did all of this happen? Like, yeah, we had a plan, but I think a lot of it exceeded what we even imagined in the beginning. So.
Kelsey [00:27:45]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think you highlighted something so important too, that oftentimes when we land on the exciting idea, it's like, okay, we're gonna do the branding and build the website and find a roaster and all this stuff. And then inevitably, once you get through all those, like, exciting business planning tasks, you get to the messy middle and it's like, okay, now sales aren't coming in. Like, we thought. We've invested a lot of money. You know, you got to go door knocking, find retailers. Like, there's just so much that bubbles up. So I'm curious, have there been any challenges that have almost derailed you? How did you stay the course? How do you stay the course when inevitably entrepreneurship is hard? There are going to be so many bumps on the journey, but I think a lot of people aren't willing to Navigate that messy middle.
Kelsey [00:28:33]:
So how do you guys look at that?
Sandrine Summay [00:28:36]:
Ooh, that's a very good question. So many. I couldn't even pinpoint a single thing because so many things have come up. But I think the biggest thing is probably you get into this because it's something that you love, right? Or you're excited to tell a new story, but then you have to take a step back and realize that entrepreneurship is also, like a skill. Right. It's not just a given where you. I think, to be honest, I think a lot of it is intuition, in a sense, because we talked about that during our initial intro meeting, is that a lot of the decisions we have made have come from intuition, which is amazing. But then there's other things where you realize, like, hey, I actually don't have the skills to.
Sandrine Summay [00:29:16]:
I've never done this before. Right. Like, really important business things. Specifically, I would say, like, on the sales side, I'm such a. I love creating brands stories. I love being on set, doing shoots, collaborating with my friends, like casting, hiring different designers, like cinematographers, everything. But then when it comes to sales, I think that's where I actually struggle because I hate forcing people to buy things like crazy, because that's the business we're in trying to get you to buy coffee, but I hate asking people to do that. And then, so I think when we even, like, even as of late, that's something that we're really focusing on, like the foundational side of building a proper sales pipeline, which even as I spoke to my other friends who are also founders, I think it's a big thing that a lot of us lack because you just.
Sandrine Summay [00:30:07]:
You don't know how to do that until you know how to do it right. So I think it's really recognizing and being patient with yourself when you hit a roadblock of. Of thinking as a founder, I should know how to do this or why don't I know how to. Why am I seeing this happen for this brand? We're doing kind of the same thing, but we're not seeing the similar results. And then it's like it actually has nothing to do with the surface story. It's more about your system. It's more about the foundation that you've built. And that's.
Sandrine Summay [00:30:37]:
Yeah, there's many, many things that I didn't know and that I had to take the time to actually either learn. I'm a big, like, online course person, which is literally got to where I'm at today, just like, big online course person. But I also recognize When I don't know something, I seek out an expert immediately. And when I say an expert, it's more, do I have a friend that's in this industry that I can tap into and say, hey, I'd love to just borrow, like, two hours of your time, don't know anything about this, or do you have a professional that you can connect me to to learn more about it? Because I just find that you have to find the balance between what makes sense for me to learn in order to understand as a founder and what do I need to outsource? Because it makes zero sense for me to spend two years learning this skill that I should have just outsourced. Right? So I think that that's been a big difficulty, especially as a small business. We don't have unlimited resources. So you kind of have to tread that fine line of, I need to know this, I need to learn this myself, and it's time to actually outsource and get someone who's going to bring us to that next level, and it is worth the investment.
Kelsey [00:31:43]:
Mm, yeah. That's such an important reminder. I mean, number one, it's just like a reminder that committing to the journey of building a business and chasing big dreams is also a commitment to lifelong learning. Because what worked five years ago, two years ago, one year ago to sell coffee or consulting or whatever doesn't work anymore. Right. We always have to be looking at, like, where is the attention going? What are people responding to? And being willing to shift and evolve and change and learn and realize that, like, we don't always have the solutions that are going to be guaranteed for the future of the business. And I also love what you said about, like, you recognize, okay, I tend towards that creativity and that inspiration. It's like the reason why you love Nile.
Kelsey [00:32:30]:
But then there's also that piece of, like, well, we have to sell and bring money into the bottom line. And I often see this tendency of business owners. They want to lean so deeply into, like, just do what's fun and light and just, like, follow your heart. But I think you also have to make strategic decisions on behalf of the business. Of, like, okay, like, sales is something that's important, and we need to look at this objectively and realize that, like, we don't always get to just, like, play in the fun zone and the creative zone. And sometimes we just have to, like, put on a new hat and be like, okay, this isn't as enjoyable. However, making a strategic operational choice on behalf of the business to learn about shit that I don't know about. Which can be hard for somebody who's very passion driven and who's starting like a purpose based business.
Kelsey [00:33:21]:
I guess so anyways, yeah, definitely a tricky one.
Sandrine Summay [00:33:26]:
But I think I also am like a lifelong. Like I love learning, I love learning about random things. So to me it's, it's more like do I have the time to actually learn this properly and deeply in the way that I need to to do it justice in the business. But otherwise all the different parts and components of things that it requires to be successful in business is like I'm very open to learning and I've seeked out so many different like incubators, programs because there, I think when you really log into like the, is it the ISD or whatever the, the government, like there's an infinite amount of resources. I think a lot of people would be surprised and it might not be resources that they're willing to take on because sometimes these are things that you need to do. It's like a six month program, you need to check in, you need to do meetings. But they are actually so helpful to have again that objective person that's going to look over your business and really say, hey, here's where you're struggling and where I think put more resources in two. And so Taher, Jamal, myself, we've all been very open to those types of programs.
Sandrine Summay [00:34:30]:
And that's even how like I apply for all those things because I don't feel like I'm at a place where I can say like, you know what? I know, I know enough, I'm not there yet. So.
Kelsey [00:34:42]:
So you guys weave arts and culture and like you really have this brand that feels to me like you are so clear what you stand for. So I'd love for you to explain a little bit about why you guys decided to merge coffee culture with arts and culture. And then if you could kind of touch on like how does that inform your marketing strategy and how you guys are consciously growing the brand with this really cool angle that I haven't really seen a lot of coffee brands do before.
Sandrine Summay [00:35:19]:
Well, that actually came from a lot of soul searching on my end because I think marketing is like my main function in the business and creative direction. But coffee is a commodity, right? And I think it's incredibly difficult to say, hey, like our coffee is better than your coffee. Like it's actually like very hard to say that to be honest, because even all the specialty coffees are as good as the next. You know what I mean? Like there's not like even the biggest brands, like the blue, like the Blue bottles, whatever. Like, there's a coffee that's smaller batch that's probably as good as blue bottle. So then you get into this conundrum where it's like, so if all of our coffee, which is specialty grade, is really good, then how do you even differentiate yourself? And I had to. I really was digging for a while and I think people hate to admit that, that it's like it wasn't just like this natural, like we had to build in a story that felt true to us. But I think initially we were looking at it like, hey, we're a coffee company.
Sandrine Summay [00:36:19]:
This is what we should. We're like, we're just selling coffee. But it went deeper than that because like I said, we're all deejays. We're all creatives in our own. Like, Jamal is an incredible artist, like recording artist, musician. Taher has been DJing for years and producing music. I myself was like shooting photos for so long. I was modeling, I was doing all these different things and I DJ as well.
Sandrine Summay [00:36:45]:
So I think naturally our community of people that we collaborate with or hang out with are all in that same scene. And like I said, they're all those same people that we would sit on the bench and have these beautiful conversations with. So it's. We really just made this brand an ode to the people who are part of our community. And then this extended community that is so global in a sense, but then tying it back to the coffee actually having its origins. I think it's. It was really important for us. We don't like to play the black angle, I would say, like, as the main thing, because that to us, all three of us, we were like, you know what? Not that that's not a very important part of it, but we exist beyond this idea of just being a black owned coffee brand.
Sandrine Summay [00:37:29]:
Like, we actually stand for bigger things than that. And I think that whole rest angle, which, like, it's funny that I'm still grappling with that and it's such a big part of our brand is almost like an affirmation. Like when I put it in denial, it's an affirmation and a reminder for myself and for all of us. Because a big thing about like growing up black is like even a black woman is. You feel like you have to work literally 10 times harder to get to the same place that someone else would have to. Right. I've been grinding at this, like since I was like 14. Like, started working at like winners.
Sandrine Summay [00:38:04]:
You know what I Mean, I think actually Tim Hortons, because winners. I had to be 15 in order to start.
Kelsey [00:38:09]:
Timmy's would take you at any age.
Sandrine Summay [00:38:10]:
Yeah. Amy's will take you whenever. And I appreciate that. I actually forgot full circle. First job was Tim Hortons, and now we are in coffee.
Kelsey [00:38:18]:
And I'm sure you still hold on to many of the lessons learned from 100 days. Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:38:23]:
Oh, yeah. No, I respect them as a brand so much. But it's. It's really interesting because, like I was saying, this idea of rest and pause, which I was really inspired by. Nap ministry, I don't know if you know them. And they are essentially a brand founded by a black woman who just advocates deeply for napping. Resting as resistance, in a sense, because she's saying instead of hustling and grinding in the way that we are used to, to be seen in the same way as everyone else on an equal level, take a pause. Like, don't even worry about it.
Sandrine Summay [00:38:57]:
Do what's good for you. Like, fuck it. You know what I mean? Sorry to Swear Podcast.
Kelsey [00:39:00]:
Great.
Sandrine Summay [00:39:01]:
That's really just. So those different things which are important to all of us kind of intersected in a very interesting way, I should say. And then so by default of that is like, we love working with our friends. And so when we went to make a mug, or we went to build the website, or we went to do a photo shoot, or we went to do a piece of merch, the whole concept behind it was this idea of play and rest and dialogue. So we made like an incense holder. We made this really cool jersey with our friend Moya, who is an incredible illustrator. He's now moved to London, but he's worked with, like, Pharrell's brand. Like, he's worked with, like, really big names and we just happen to know him.
Sandrine Summay [00:39:39]:
Right.
Kelsey [00:39:40]:
Wow.
Sandrine Summay [00:39:40]:
So all of these things are just organic collaborations with artists that we really respect. And then I think this idea also that everyone is actually inherently creative. And so back to when we spoke about. Throughout the DHL process, we kind of unlocked this new thing for the brand where it's almost like not coffee for your nine to five, where you feel like it's coffee to grind. It's actually for your 5 to 9. It's for your passion project. It's to fuel the thing that makes you happy, that exists beyond how you make money. Right.
Sandrine Summay [00:40:15]:
Or can the way you make money, but it is your passion. And so all those things are really important to us as a brand. And I think, like, accidentally or on purpose, we actually have now differentiated ourselves from every other coffee brand that I personally know. And I'm sure other people have that same similar ethos or similar audience because we all are kind of the audiences may be similar, but I think it's the way that we are approaching it. I think we've now carved a very unique place for ourselves in that market and now it's more about telling that story in really meaningful ways. And we've been doing these ads, I don't know if you saw the little commercials that we've been doing. Like once a year we'll do like a big commercial. And so the one that we did last year was just like again, organic.
Sandrine Summay [00:41:02]:
My friend that I first lived with when I moved here, first person I ever met in Toronto when I moved here, ended up he's a director now, incredible director. So he's like, love what you're doing with Niall. Do you guys want to shoot a commercial? And I'm like, yeah, so. So that's how all of these things have happened. Just friendships, collaborations and kind of working with like minded people and really from a strategic lens, kind of understanding what resonates with that segment of people as well.
Kelsey [00:41:31]:
Oh, this is what we have lost. So many business owners and I'm going to blanket online. Business owners think that starting a business is like, I'm just going to go in my basement, open up my laptop and they forget that like the magic is in the connection, the partnerships, leaning on friends, not feeling like I have to do everything, but instead calling someone up and being like, oh, want to jam on this? How can you contribute and I can contribute and you know, we can come up with something really incredible together. Like the partnerships that are just exciting. I think we've lost that because people are living behind their screens. They think that it's enough to just send off emails and you know, put on the Google Ads and run the funnels, which is all fine. But I think the magic and just like the uniqueness of Nile is that you guys have this brand that is built on connections and your interest and it's like at the crux of all three of your lives and what you really feel excited about and you've brought that in. And I do believe that some of the best businesses and product ideas are a direct reflection of what you wish you saw in the world and tying in the storyline that you're like, yeah, this is a commodity product, but if we want to be a favorite, we have to apply the personal insights, the storytelling that people feel connected to.
Kelsey [00:42:57]:
I love the visual of the 5 to 9, because that's when I was sipping Nile. It was out for dinner with a girlfriend after podcasting all day, and I was like, you know, what I want right now is, like, a cute little espresso. And, like, yeah, it just. It felt so good. So, yeah, it's a good reminder that, like, the story is so valuable and to never discount how much you bring that forward in your marketing versus just being like, I just got a post on Instagram. Like, well, what's the message there? Why? Yeah, yeah. And not doing it all, but, like, really coming at the marketing angle when you feel like there's something meaningful that won't clutter the Internet like everyone else is doing.
Sandrine Summay [00:43:43]:
So I think that's a big part of it, too, because for years I've. I think I've always had this aspiration of owning a business, and I was a very early adopter of, like, shop. Like, back when Shopify was not a thing. Right. I just make fake stores and, like, have fun. And I was, like, dropshipping. What's that? Like, I was so into that when it first came out, like, years ago. But then I always felt the sense of guilt, as, why would I just order something from China and resell it on Shopify? And then there's no actual connection to this other than I did my keyword research and know that this product is being searched X amount, and that, like, if I do my margins right, it will probably sell and I'll make money.
Sandrine Summay [00:44:25]:
You know what I mean? Yep. That process never felt good in my soul. And so I think I, like, moved to Toronto, like, 2014. And then I lost that part of me for a while because I was focused, obviously, on school. I was working as a barista, and I just was living life. And then years later, by accident, or not by accident, then when Jamal and Taher kind of approached me, like, I had no. That was not in my path to actually start a business at that time. Everything I've done since, like, all the businesses I started kind of started during COVID like, at the time where I feel like we had all this time to just.
Sandrine Summay [00:45:07]:
Most people had time to jump into things. I actually Working full time and moving to the Middle East. So it was not an easy process, but it was really exciting and just this idea that anything is possible. And then it was also, like, me remembering all these aspirations that I had when I was younger that I kind of put aside and forgot that they were goals that I had for myself. So it all came in our roundabout way.
Kelsey [00:45:32]:
That's incredible. What would you say are some of the things that have, quote unquote, worked in terms of marketing and building awareness for Niall? Like if you can reflect on maybe one or two or three things that you're like, damn, that was successful. Not necessarily from like bottom line revenue, but just a moment where you're like, yeah, that was it. We really made an impact for the company in that moment.
Sandrine Summay [00:45:58]:
Yeah. I think there's like two major things last year. One last year and one recently this year that worked really well. Like I mentioned that commercial that we did, like got the most amount of views and shares and we even got into ad age. Like it was the amount of publications that reposted that and said like, best commercial, like 13 best commercials that you should check out today. Like, I was shocked to be, wow, such a beautiful piece that we put together. But I didn't expect the. The feedback that we got, which was really beautiful.
Sandrine Summay [00:46:31]:
And it got a lot of eyes from people who came at it because of the creative, actually, not because we are a coffee company. Right. And so it proved this part point of like, if you. And I've. I'm seeing a trend of that too where a lot of brands are focusing on these more like short form, almost like very cinematic, like very beautifully shot movies, like mini movies, the brand. So we did that very organically just because of our connection to Tim and it was something we had done the year before with Adrian Vianney and that also was one of our best pieces of content. So I think people love that from us. We want to do more of it.
Kelsey [00:47:10]:
Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:47:11]:
I will say though, for everyone, the budget needs to be big. You cannot have that many people.
Kelsey [00:47:16]:
Like how much is big though? Because I think now that big, I'm.
Sandrine Summay [00:47:19]:
Talking big of like, that wasn't in a plan. It wasn't in a yearly plan for us. But if we had done that, actually it would have cost like 30, $40,000 to produce that. Right. Which is like not in our plan for a one time piece of content as a small business. Like, you know what I mean? I'm just saying, like it's not the worst price tag, but it's also just like it needs to tie to something bigger. Obviously.
Kelsey [00:47:42]:
Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:47:43]:
But we were really blessed that we just. It was just pulling favors and friends and it ended up being like everyone was just down to collaborate and it just fell in our laps twice. Right.
Kelsey [00:47:53]:
Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:47:53]:
Very lucky. Then the next thing that worked out really well for us was we were approached by Crybaby Gallery to Do an art show. There was. And initially when they approached us, it was kind of like, well, I don't want to just print photos of creative that we've done and just like put it on a white wall. And Moni, who is again, very good friend of ours, who is the head curator there, he's like, well, no, I love all the people you guys collaborate with. What if it was an art show of all your Nile collaborators? And so it turned into Eric Chen, who designed our T shirt. It turned into Rahel, who's actually one of our baristas at the shop that we opened, who's an incredible ceramicist, Keel, who is. He works in art, Deb, but he's done like some set design stuff for us whenever we've done a shoot.
Sandrine Summay [00:48:44]:
Who else? Yeah, there were so many people that were involved, like Susie, who's done a lot of poems for us that we've put on actual merch. So it's like just this really beautiful coming together of all the people who have helped us throughout the process, whether it be merch, website, just random graphic design. Because all those people in their own rights, even if they're not artists that would show in a gallery, they are artists in their own right. And so giving them a platform to showcase their own work that actually had nothing to do with Nile in a gallery setting was so beautiful. We had espresso martinis, we collaborated with Scully, the reception and people who came. And just like the. The mug that we dropped as well, like it was just overall just so successful. And obviously events like that take a lot of planning, take a lot of heart and.
Sandrine Summay [00:49:35]:
But it's worth it. It was very, very, very worth it. And I feel like things like a couple things like that throughout the year, not always necessarily a gallery show, but I think just a way to bring the community together and give a platform to others who are. Have either helped us or that we just are feel inspired by seems to be another pillar that we should add to the brand as something that's like reoccurring.
Kelsey [00:49:59]:
It's so cool because I think we, in our souls, we know that marketing like that has a infinite return on investment, but it's hard to quantify it. And so there's this deep trust needed that like this community we're building, paying attention to every single detail. You know, having these like really special mugs that our friend design. It's like you have to trust that all of that is going to pay off because there might not be this immediate spike in sales, there might not Be immediate, like business turnaround. But, like, those are the moments that truly build a brand that is memorable and that is remarkable. Like, how many people left an event like that and went and told all their friends? And it's again, hard to quantify that. So if you have to report in like a marketing manager, if you're just looking at numbers and it might not look perfect, but you just feel it. Like you feel the brand in your soul.
Kelsey [00:50:54]:
And it's like, that was worth the time and effort. And yeah, I think it gives all of us who are listening just a renewed sense of what it is to bring a brand to life versus maybe getting caught in the trap of just living behind our computer screens. So thank you for sharing that. And you guys have so many good, like, visuals on your Instagram where people can actually see how you really hold your brand standards to a high level of integrity, I would say. And like, every piece is like. Seems to me like it's really thoughtfully curated.
Sandrine Summay [00:51:30]:
Thank you. That's. That makes me really happy to hear because that is obviously the mission. I think as social media shifts into this world where being less curated is actually the move, I've again, moving with intuition. It's more now like, okay, what feels good to Niall, because I think the messy aesthetic and just being like off the cuff is actually what's in right now. But I think. And if you move with a trend, which may be just a trend and not actually where things are going long term, which, I don't know, like, that might be the new wave, right? But I think I'm just trying to be true to what feels good to our brand and then also keeping those standards but finding ways to loosen them just to show not just feeling very curated, but also just a little bit more authentic and a little bit more like, open hearted, you know what I mean? So I think that's the next wave is like, how do we show a little bit of that mess, but still uphold the standards and brand that we have? Because it is really about the visuals and the aesthetic and the creative direction. Like, that's what gets us excited.
Kelsey [00:52:34]:
So I love it. And before, I want to ask you one final question, but before we kind of shift gears, I'll just refer people to Instagram. Niall Coffee Club. You guys also have your website, Nile Coffee Club, where people can shop your subscriptions. You have these amazing taster package. You have swag on there. So we'll definitely plug that in the show notes. And I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about The DJ studio that you are building, can you just share a little bit about how that came to be and what you're working on there?
Sandrine Summay [00:53:04]:
Yeah. So that was another accidental business that I fell into, but it came from a real need because years ago I made a mix for Immunishi. I'm big music lover. Like, I love music. I've always been putting my friends onto new music and stuff like that. But then I got asked by Minishi, which is a restaurant on Dundas here. That's one of my favorite places to make a mix. And so I made one and then people were like, wait, can you come DJ this event? And I was like, guys, I literally don't know how to dj.
Sandrine Summay [00:53:35]:
And I think the thing that people need to understand is that the gear that is used to DJ in, like, the club standard gear or any venue. Yeah, the whole kit costs like 20, like, near like $15,000, you know what I mean? It can't cost that much. Like, low end, maybe like 5k, high end, maybe like in the 10 15ks, right. No one is spending that money to just have that gear at home. And so I took a massive leap of faith because I had gone to a space in New York called Pirate Studios, which, like, all they do is, like rehearsal rooms, but it's like a massive warehouse. They have like 10 DJ rooms, 10, like, band rehearsal rooms, 10 podcasts. Like, it's massive.
Kelsey [00:54:18]:
Oh, wow. Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:54:19]:
Which is a really cool business model. And so when I would go to New York, I would just bring my usb, use their rooms, and I was like, wow, what a lovely business model that allows me to practice in a space that isn't just at my friend's house. Or, yes, at a venue that allows you to come practice. But it's, like, awkward because people are watching you and you're like, early baby. Stages of learning to be better at something. So when I came back to Toronto seeking that, I was like, wait, no one has done that here, or even in Canada at that time, to be honest. There were a couple places that they would have, like, jams where a bunch of people could come, but there was no private practice studios. And so I again took a leap of faith, bought the whole kit.
Sandrine Summay [00:55:02]:
I, like, pulled money out of my savings, thought it was the worst thing I could be doing because I had no. There wasn't even a business model. It was literally just like, maybe if I buy this and then rent the gear out and make my money back, like, that's where I was. I wasn't even at making A business out of it. I was. It was in the back of my head, but I hadn't thought that far. So I bought the gear, put it on Kijiji and like, Marketplace, and I literally made my money back in like, four months because only long. And McQuaid rents out that gear.
Kelsey [00:55:34]:
Wow.
Sandrine Summay [00:55:35]:
And I was like, oh, there's a demand. And this isn't just for events. This is people renting it to practice at home. So then I. A friend of mine owns Tammy's Wine Bar, and one day, through talking, he's like, oh, you know, I have this basement space that's like storage that we're not doing anything with. And it's like a pretty. Like, it was like 200, 300ft. And he's like, do you just want that? So I brought my gear there, set it up, made one Instagram post, and it blew up.
Sandrine Summay [00:56:02]:
Because nothing else like that exists in, like, all of Ontario. So every DJ word of mouth was like, sharing it. I've never done ads. I've never, like, I barely post on Instagram. And it's been sustained for the past two years. Like, it's. Yeah, the business is kind of booming because it's an actual need. And I think I just caught it at a time culture where DJing was becoming more like all the radio shows popping up, DJ culture, Charlie XX Album.
Sandrine Summay [00:56:34]:
Like, all of that is part of a very specific cultural moment that we're living in. And I think I caught it at the beginning of that resurgence of people kind of wanting to. Getting into, learning how to dj. And now it's expanding into, like I said, people need podcasting rooms, people need recording studios at an affordable rate. And the reason why it worked is because I charge 25 an hour, whereas anywhere else would be like 50 bucks, 60 bucks an hour. But, like, DJs don't have money. A lot of creatives don't have money. Like, they don't have money like that to be spending 150 plus every time that they want to practice for a gig.
Sandrine Summay [00:57:13]:
You know what I mean? Like, when you're only getting need $200 for a gig in Toronto, like, no one has that money. So I think making it affordable and accessible and also for the people is the thing that I did right. Because then it kind of just like blew up by itself. Whereas if I had priced it in a way that was inaccessible, then, like, people still needed it, but it would have just been a tougher.
Kelsey [00:57:35]:
Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:57:36]:
Oh, yeah. So it's kind of just running. The thing is happening. I don't even know how to describe it. It's just, it, like, makes me so thankful and happy to receive the messages that I do where people are like, thank you so much. Like, I've been meaning to practice for this thing. I had no other way of doing so. Or this is my first time ever touching club standard gear and it's like 25 an hour.
Sandrine Summay [00:57:58]:
Like, I think of all the things I've done. I love Nile, but this one is like, you know, when you're serving a need that is so.
Kelsey [00:58:03]:
Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [00:58:04]:
Immediate. It just, like, fills your heart, makes it warm. So, yeah.
Kelsey [00:58:09]:
And that is such a good spot to kind of wrap up. It's just such a good reminder of, like, when the heart and soul are there, you always figure out a way. And when you just keep following your intuition and leaning on, like, where is the demand right now? Right. Like, you also have to be open to, like, what is there a need for that I can uniquely fill? And then am I willing to snatch that idea idea and kind of just like, throw your arms up and see how it works and trust that it will work. So that's incredible. And I would hope maybe one day you will add podcast studio to the roster. You mentioned that place in New York had podcast studio. So anyways, that would be super badass because I am loving recording in person again.
Kelsey [00:58:57]:
The select Gigster.com is very hit and.
Sandrine Summay [00:59:00]:
Miss, so no, it's already in the works. I'm like, trust me.
Kelsey [00:59:03]:
Yay. All right. Okay. Well, I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be your first customer there. So that's so cool. And I love the vibe. We are gonna link everything in the show notes.
Kelsey [00:59:14]:
This has been such a fun conversation. I love that we kind of got to cover it all and just shine a spotlight on how passionate and driven you are. And also this conversation around maybe I'm in a season where I need to let go of that control for Hustle and more and more and instead honor my drive, but also enjoy what I have and know that I am enough without always being productive and optimized. So thank you. This has been so fun. And yeah, we wish you all the best. Where should people connect with you anywhere else? Nile, Estrella. All the things.
Sandrine Summay [00:59:48]:
Yeah, I think just my personal Instagram is at Santrizi and then Nile, the website, obviously you already plugged that Estrella, which is like E S T T R E L A R. That's also. We can plug that in the show notes. But I think. And also on LinkedIn, I don't know, hit me wherever the socials go.
Kelsey [01:00:08]:
Yep, we're gonna link it all.
Sandrine Summay [01:00:10]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Kelsey [01:00:11]:
Amazing. And get yourself some coffee if you are listening. It is such a refreshing twist on coffee. You just feel better when you put those beans in your espresso machine. So thank you, Sandrine. We appreciate you taking the time today and we wish you, you all of the best.
Sandrine Summay [01:00:26]:
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. And this was fun.
Kelsey [01:00:31]:
Yay, we did it. That was so good. Really good. First podcast and you're like, I know I had the best natural.
Sandrine Summay [01:00:37]:
No, I need to get that room going so that then I can actually just get more people in there.
Kelsey [01:00:43]:
Yeah. And I mean, how popular podcasting is. And the return, like, I used to only record in person in Toronto, and then when 2020 hit, I was like, okay, we'll do the virtual thing. And then I realized, like, it's just. It feels transactional sometimes. So I'm trying to make a return to in person. Yeah. But the studio that I recorded at a few weeks ago, I didn't love it.
Kelsey [01:01:05]:
It was good. But I'm definitely still here. Yeah.
Sandrine Summay [01:01:10]:
I'm genuinely, like, I just applied because, you know, I love an incubator. I actually just signed up for DMZ because what I'm doing, to me, like, Estrella feels like an MVP right now. But the ultimate goal, which would be like, my peak, peak form of, like, blending all my businesses, because even now, the intersection between Nile and Estrella is really funny because as we do events, people who want coffee catering are also like, do you know anyone who can dj and is there a gear? And I'm like, yeah, plug all the things. But even beyond that, I think it's. I'm realizing that I have a love of, like, hosting and spaces because the difference with Pirate is that this one feels like a living room. Like, it's designed as, like, there's like, really fun couches you can sit, bring friends, coffee table curated with a bunch of really nice books that you can just like, read and hang as you're. Whereas Pirate is like a cubicle. Like, literally just a studio with, like, speakers and a seat.
Sandrine Summay [01:02:09]:
Right.
Kelsey [01:02:09]:
Which is a very different vibe.
Sandrine Summay [01:02:12]:
So I'm like, I feel like there's this need for third spaces that needs to be filled in a hub that could be almost like, if it was like, boutique hotel on the top floor and the creative spaces you rent on the first and then a coffee component. So I actually made a deck and then use that as my application for dmz. But I'M like, I'd be curious if you had, like, examples of spaces that you went to and, like, they work. Didn't work. Because I'd love to add that into, like, the competitive analysis. That'd be great.
Kelsey [01:02:42]:
Yeah. I'm gonna send you the. What I'll do is I'll pull the address and, like, I don't even know if it had a name. Technically. It was 864 College Street.
Sandrine Summay [01:02:56]:
Interesting.
Kelsey [01:02:58]:
And floor three. And the guy's name was Mo. So I'll just send you what I have from the booking and then. Did you. I don't know. I didn't send you, like, a visual of what it looked like, did I?
Sandrine Summay [01:03:09]:
Oh, Podium podcast. I'm seeing it here.
Kelsey [01:03:11]:
Okay.
Sandrine Summay [01:03:12]:
Yeah, my friend's building. It's like she lives. Yeah. Because it's right above Chiado, which is like, she lives in that same building.
Kelsey [01:03:18]:
Yep. Okay. So Podium podcast, I just thought the vibe wasn't quite right, and it wasn't soundproof. Like, they had office spaces. So somebody was, like, printing with a really loud printer while I was recording, and you can hear it in the audio. So I was just like, they're kind of trying to do too much. And just the experience wasn't exactly what I was hoping. I've just been looking at other spaces, flagging a few later.
Sandrine Summay [01:03:48]:
Very good to know. Interesting.
Kelsey [01:03:50]:
But, yeah, I mean, then you can rent the mics if you need them. He does the video. He sends everything in Dropbox right after. Price was pretty decent.
Sandrine Summay [01:03:58]:
So there was someone there with you. Like, someone to actually record everything and then edit, send things to you?
Kelsey [01:04:04]:
Yeah. So the guy Mo, he's there. He basically comes in, does mic check, does the camera, turns it all on, and then he leaves. So it's all recording, but he's not actually monitoring the equipment. So you have the studio by yourself, and then when you're done, he comes back in and then gets it all sent over.
Sandrine Summay [01:04:22]:
Okay. No, this is very interesting. Okay, good to know.
Kelsey [01:04:26]:
Yeah. So let me know if you have any other questions. And, yeah, I'll reach out to you, I don't know, in a month or two and see where you're at with yours. Happy to chat anytime. Yeah. So I'll send you an email when everything goes live. I think you're slotted for the first week of April. So, yeah, you'll get an email from me with clips and show notes and all the things, and then it'll be live on every podcast channel.
Sandrine Summay [01:04:49]:
Amazing. Thank you so much for having me. This was an amazing oh, welcome.
Kelsey [01:04:53]:
Oh, so fun. So nourishing. So let's do it again sometime. Hopefully next time in person. How about that? Awesome. Well, thank you so much, Sandrine. And I hope you have a good rest of your day.
Sandrine Summay [01:05:04]:
Thank you. Have a good one.
Kelsey [01:05:06]:
Bye.
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