374 The Truth About Publishing: Self vs Traditional, Writing Routines & Getting Your Book Out There
Founder of Folio Publushing
Michael Foglio
Have you ever dreamed of writing a book but felt overwhelmed by where to begin?
In this episode, Kelsey sits down with Michael Foglio, founder of Folio Publishing and creator of Memoir Co-Writer, to talk about all things books, publishing, and becoming an author (no matter your background or experience).
They dive deep into the state of the book industry in 2025, the differences between self-publishing and traditional publishing, and the mindset shifts needed to finally bring your book to life. Michael also shares how their new AI-powered tool, Memoir Co-Writer, is making writing more accessible than ever before.
Whether you're a seasoned entrepreneur looking to elevate your brand or someone dreaming of preserving your stories for future generations, this episode offers practical advice and inspiration to help you finally start writing.
They also chat about:
Why books are not dying and who should consider writing one
The real differences between traditional vs. self-publishing
The 4 stages of publishing success
How to turn your content (blogs, newsletters, podcasts) into a cohesive book
Practical tips for overcoming writer’s block and building a writing routine
Common mistakes first-time authors make and how to avoid them
How to think about book marketing (even if you hate selling!)
Ways to build buzz and create momentum for your book launch
Timestamps
[01:30] Michael talks about why books are actually on the rise
[04:00] The big differences between self-publishing and traditional publishings
[07:30] How anyone can write a book
[10:15] How to transform your blogs, podcasts, and newsletters into a cohesive manuscript
[13:00] Michael’s new AI Memoir Co-Writer Tool
[17:30] How Memoir Co-Writer Works
[20:30] Common Mistakes First-Time Authors Make
[24:30] Folio’s Four Stage Path to Publishing Success
[28:00] How visualizing your audience can help craft your book
[31:30] Tips for building a consistent writing habit and silencing self-doubt
[35:00] Setting small achievable goals can help you build momentum
[37:00] How to Market your Book successfully
[41:00] How to get started if you are feeling overwhelmed on where to start.
To connect with Michael Foglio:
Website: foglioprint.com
AI Writer Helper:https://www.memoircowriter.com/
To connect with Kelsey:
Access the transcript for this episode:
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Kelsey [00:00:00]:
You're listening to the Visionary Life Podcast. I'm your host, Kelsey Rydle. Each week I'll bring you conversations with.
Michael [00:00:06]:
The most visionary humans on this earth in hopes that you'll be able to.
Kelsey [00:00:10]:
Absorb their wisdom, avoid their failures, and feel less alone on the roller coaster ride that is entrepreneurship. This season, I'll be chatting with creative thinkers, masterful marketers, brick and mortar shop.
Michael [00:00:22]:
Owners, brand builders, and people just like.
Kelsey [00:00:25]:
You who have a story to share or a vision that inspires.
Michael [00:00:28]:
And if I can share one quick.
Kelsey [00:00:30]:
Secret with you before we get into the episode, it's that we all have a little bit of visionary inside of us. You know, that spark that nudges us to pursue our full potential in this lifetime. But perhaps somewhere along the line, it got covered up.
Michael [00:00:45]:
I'm here to tell you that it's.
Kelsey [00:00:46]:
Never too late to explore that inner voice and access the brilliance deep down inside of you.
Michael [00:00:52]:
It's in you.
Kelsey [00:00:53]:
It's in all of us. Let's dive in. Hey, visionaries. Welcome back to a super special episode with one of my clients, Michael, and he is the founder of Folio Custom Publishing.
Michael [00:01:06]:
If you are looking for someone to.
Kelsey [00:01:08]:
Design your book, edit your book, get it to the finish line, help you with distribution, Michael and Folio Publishing is.
Michael [00:01:15]:
Exactly what you need.
Kelsey [00:01:17]:
They have an incredible webinar too, but more on that momentarily. I thought I would share a personal update. Just catch you guys up to speed on what's been going on.
Michael [00:01:26]:
And you know that my favorite thing to do is just come alongside with you whether you're driving, whether you're walking, whether you are listening as you do.
Kelsey [00:01:34]:
The dishes or as you fall asleep.
Michael [00:01:35]:
Well, hopefully I don't put you to sleep, but wherever you're tuning in from.
Kelsey [00:01:40]:
Just know that I'm so grateful you're here. I absolutely love recording this show every single week for you. And yeah, I'm just really grateful that you tune in and that you're part of this community.
Michael [00:01:53]:
So a few things.
Kelsey [00:01:54]:
First of all, I found myself with this one hour gap because somebody canceled a meeting on me about 40 minutes before the meeting, which is totally fine. But you guys, I paid $750. I'm not joking.
Michael [00:02:13]:
I want to give you all the.
Kelsey [00:02:14]:
Details, but I have to spare them a bit. I paid $750 for a one hour meeting with someone who, who I feel could help me solve a specific problem.
Michael [00:02:26]:
That I'm having in my business.
Kelsey [00:02:27]:
I totally see value in this person's services. So I just paid the price tag 750 bucks plus tax.
Michael [00:02:36]:
All good. And I was really looking forward.
Kelsey [00:02:39]:
I prepared, I did everything I needed to do, and I showed up at the allotted time slot. I put everything on hold today for this meeting. And then I'm like, oh, that's weird. The meeting invite has been declined. And then, go figure. I see that there's an email saying, hey, need to reschedule.
Michael [00:02:57]:
Now, I'm totally okay with that.
Kelsey [00:02:59]:
Life happens, and I completely get it. But I'm also like, oh, no. Like, did I just pay $750 for the wrong person? And are they going to take my money and run?
Michael [00:03:10]:
So ask me in a couple weeks. We'll see how that situation goes.
Kelsey [00:03:14]:
But as I prepare for a trip to New York City to work with a client, I knew that I needed somebody to help me. And so I don't know about you guys, but when I have a big task at hand, instead of spinning my wheels, instead of staring at a blank cursor, instead of just, like, thinking, like, what do I do? Or what's the best way? I just like to ask, or I'm.
Michael [00:03:36]:
Getting better at it.
Kelsey [00:03:36]:
I'm not the best quite yet, but I'm trying to wire my brain to think, who do I know that could.
Michael [00:03:43]:
Help me with this problem?
Kelsey [00:03:44]:
Because here's the thing. Almost everybody has an hourly rate. Sometimes you might be shocked at what that hourly rate is, but also, in this case, I was just happy that this person was willing to offer me an hour. Um, and so, yeah, I mean, it. It's kind of cool that you can charge whatever you want for your time, and that increases with the amount of value you can provide. And that if you are currently experiencing any challenge in your business, if it makes sense, this is not always the case. But I want you to flip, how do I do this into who can I hire or who can I ask? It doesn't even have to be a paid gig. But who can help me with this? Because chances are there is somebody in your life that could support you with any given challenge or roadblock or setback that you have.
Kelsey [00:04:35]:
And it's interesting because we live in this day and age where I think we feel as though we have to do everything ourselves. When in reality, when we look to the community, when we look to our tribes, to say, does somebody already have this skill? Like, I need to conserve and not try to do everything myself? And the reason why I'm trying to rewire my brain to do that is because I think so often I do try to muscle through a challenge. Like, if I'M having a tech issue on my website. I'll be like, no, I can figure it out. But then hours have gone by and I've just wasted what my hourly rate is, doing something that someone else could have done in much quicker time. So if you never really calculated your hourly rate before, go ahead and do that. Like if you work a corporate job, you're just going to take your salary, divide it by 50 weeks of the year. If you have two weeks vacation, divide it by eight hours a day and that is your hourly rate.
Kelsey [00:05:33]:
If you are an entrepreneur, if you're making a hundred thousand a year and you work 50 weeks out of the year and you work seven hour days, then cost that out and say, okay, what's my hourly rate worth? And then anything that falls below that pay grade. So if you could potentially hire someone to do your grocery shopping for $5 an hour because your hourly rate is $100 an hour, it starts to become this, this shift of like, oh, maybe I should stop doing all the $5 an hour tasks and instead start to prioritize the high value tasks. This is something that one of my first business coaches taught me. He had me do a time study and then calculate my value on my hour and then basically look at my weekly time study to say, which things am I going to offload? What will I get rid of? And how does that help me focus on higher value, more strategic tasks with potential to earn more money?
Michael [00:06:36]:
So it's kind of like this.
Kelsey [00:06:37]:
I think Dan Martel talks about the replacement ladder. It's like you start with the small task, then you go to the bigger task. And let me tell you, there is resistance at every stage. Right. I still deal with this a lot with basic at home tasks. It's like, hey, like Dave and I always talk, we should redo our bathroom. We're like, yeah, we'll go to Ikea. Yeah, we'll do the install ourself.
Kelsey [00:06:59]:
Yeah, we'll, you know, learn how to retile a shower.
Michael [00:07:02]:
Here's the truth.
Kelsey [00:07:03]:
We don't have time for that. We don't have the skill sets. It's one thing, if you're using that as a creative project, I totally get it. But for us, that will take time away from family, our free time, and it probably will not bring a lot of joy. And so it's one of those things where it's like, instead of us muscling through this, why don't we outsource this? Right? Why don't we hire someone who's a gifted expert at this, all that to say that is something that I'm continually working on. I'm trying to look for those leverage points, you know, everything from can I pay someone to do my grocery shopping for me? And yes, I have started doing that now. I no longer walk the aisles of the store because even though it brings me a little bit of joy, I don't think that's the best spend of my time, all the way up to.
Michael [00:07:48]:
Hiring somebody who has built something that.
Kelsey [00:07:50]:
I am kind of on my way to building for $750 an hour, which.
Michael [00:07:56]:
Now that I'm saying it out loud.
Kelsey [00:07:57]:
Like, if I can download a lot of their key thinking frameworks in an hour, that is the best hour. That is the best money I've ever spent. So, you know, just goes to show that the, the value of your hourly rate is in the eye of your client. Like, if people are buying it, then increase your prices. If they're not, maybe lower them or build more brand equity, share more value until somebody is willing to pay the price. So. All right, so let's dive into this episode. So, like I said, we are chatting with Michael.
Kelsey [00:08:32]:
He is the founder of Folio Publishing. This is the episode for anyone who has considered becoming an author. Maybe you have a book on your mind and you're wondering, should I do self publishing? Should I do traditional publishing? What is the process of taking a book from idea to publication? What are the biggest red flags to watch out for when you're going to choose a publisher?
Michael [00:08:55]:
Is the book industry evolving?
Kelsey [00:08:57]:
Is it declining? Is it growing? Like, do we still need to write books? Are people reading them? We talk about the biggest mistakes that first time authors make and so, so, so much more. So if these types of topics interest.
Michael [00:09:11]:
You, you're gonna love this episode with.
Kelsey [00:09:13]:
Michael, the founder of Folio. And if you are interested in having their company help you publish your book, then reach out. We'll leave the links in the show notes and. And I think that's it.
Michael [00:09:25]:
So I hope you guys enjoy this.
Kelsey [00:09:26]:
Episode with Michael and I will see you on the other side.
Michael [00:09:30]:
Michael, welcome to the Visionary Life podcast. Excited to sit down and just talk about all things books and publishing and how we can even get to the finish line of writing a book and how you can support people. Because I know that for so many of our listeners, that is a yearning that they have to eventually publish their work, publish their life's knowledge. I'm curious to hear from you, like, what's going on in the book publishing industry right now? Is it a Growing or dying industry? Are people just reading free blogs and newsletters on the Internet, or is there still a place for having people write a tangible hard copy book and putting their work into a body of work? What's your perspective?
Speaker C [00:10:18]:
That's a great question, Kelsey. And you know, I find that people outside of the industry tend to think that books are dying where in fact books are on the rise.
Speaker D [00:10:29]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:10:29]:
More and more books are being sold every year and more people are writing books than ever before. Self publishing is growing. Traditional publishing is kind of slowing down. And we, we see that. I mean, I think part of this is probably because of increased literary literacy, literacy rates all over the world. So more people are reading, more people are able to read, and, and more people are able to read at say, a higher level, for lack of a better term. So there is great value in, in the medium of a book that is perhaps not present in a YouTube video, a podcast, or even an AI chatbot, for example.
Michael [00:11:09]:
You mentioned something I want to double tap on before we get into the rest of this conversation. Just the two different options of self publishing versus traditional publishing. I mean, from the way I understand it, with traditional publishing a lot of people are like waiting to be anointed. It's like waiting for someone to come knocking on the door or you have to like submit all these manuscripts and hope that one of them pans out. Whereas with traditional publishing, it's like you kind of anoint yourself and it's like, I have something wonderful, I'm building an audience, I can get this done on my timeline. Could you explain from your perspective what is the difference and who is each one right for?
Speaker C [00:11:48]:
So there is a major difference in the timeline. That's one thing for sure. If you have, say, a finished manuscript today, if you go traditional publishing, you're going to be waiting probably about two years to get that thing published. And that's after the manuscript has been reviewed and, and approved by a publisher. If you go self publishing, I mean, it depends entirely on you, but it could be about three to six months, you can have the book finished. That's cover design, marketing, done everything. So the, the major difference is I see self publishing as a very democratic way of publishing.
Speaker D [00:12:24]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:12:25]:
Rather than sending your manuscript to someone for external validation and approval and, and waiting on their word to say whether this thing is, has any merit, you can decide for yourself if your book has merit.
Speaker D [00:12:38]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:12:39]:
And that, that's, that's the great benefit of self publishing. It also allows you to do things in a different way that whereas With a traditional publisher, you may be forced to conform to certain norms, whether it's about the COVID design, the writing, things you may or may not be able to include. When you're self publishing, you can do whatever you like. Now that does have a major caveat in that you may lack some of the guidance needed to push that book to initial success. However, there have been many cases of self published books doing much better than traditional books and this is particularly in like genre fiction for example. So I'd say nearly every genre, every type of book will do well with self publishing, except perhaps maybe like literary fiction, things of that sort. But by and large most books should go self publishing.
Michael [00:13:39]:
So would it be correct to say that any of our listeners could consider self publishing? Like whether they're in the early stages of exercising their thought leadership and, or maybe they are retired and they have an idea to tell stories to their grandchildren. Like, is anyone able to write a book or are certain people not qualified to work with you and write a book? What's your perspective on that?
Speaker C [00:14:06]:
I mean really, anyone can write a book. I, I don't think it's beyond anyone's grasp. If you can read and, and make a judgment on what you're reading, you could possibly write. And now it succeeding in publishing means different things to different people.
Speaker D [00:14:23]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:14:24]:
Someone who maybe wants to write a memoir for their children and grandchildren, they're not really intending to sell too many copies of their book. Success for them might look like just seeing their family holding and reading their book and remarking on it. For someone else, it might mean selling a hundred thousand copies.
Speaker D [00:14:44]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:14:46]:
So it depends on exactly what you're looking for. And there is help at every stage of that journey.
Michael [00:14:54]:
Yeah, I'm even just considering our listeners and a lot of them are building businesses. They have a service based business or a product based business, but they have toyed with the idea of like, is it the right time to write a book? But I think then there's part of them that's like, this is going to be way too labor intensive of a process. Or maybe I don't have enough to say yet, but I love what you're saying. It's like if you feel so inclined to sit down and put pen to paper and write, like there's always some way to workshop those stories into a body of work and to publish it. And even from a marketing perspective, like I think about what the outcomes can be when you have a book, it radically increases your credibility. You can use it as a lead generator tool because People see the framework that you teach, but then they usually have to hire you to get that one on one support or the guidance. So I feel like it can play such a large role in just helping you to get exposure and visibility and kind of take your brand to the next level, because it does add a lot of authority and credibility, for sure.
Speaker C [00:16:04]:
And, you know, I would almost say that if you're running a business already and you're, you know, making blog posts, you're making content, you've probably written a book already. Whether you see it or not, you know, putting a book together is just the, the culmination of your life's work, your achievements, your expertise, whatever it is. And you've likely put out enough content to make a book already. So it's just a matter of reformatting that and presenting it in a new way that is refreshing, cohesive, cogent, and tackles the issue at hand.
Michael [00:16:41]:
Right, that's such a good point, because I even think about myself or a lot of the people that I work with, we've been creating content on the Internet for the better part of a decade. So whether that's by writing a weekly newsletter, publishing a weekly blog, doing podcast episodes one to two times a week, posting on LinkedIn, Instagram, doing workshops, YouTubes, it's like, oh my gosh, there is so much out there. But like, I'm sure 20 years ago I would have just waited, been ruminating in my head, and then written a book. But now it's like we sprinkle many pieces of content all over the Internet, but then forget that. All of that could probably be assembled into some, you know, framework or cohesive story. Do you have any suggestions for the person who's been creating? How do they even begin kind of mapping out what that book structure might look like? Like, do we use AI to dump it all into, do we map out, like, what is the theme and the different chapter titles? What would the process be for the person who does have a lot of disjointed work?
Speaker C [00:17:53]:
So the process is going to look different for every author.
Speaker D [00:17:57]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:17:57]:
And you have to find the pattern that works for you. So if you've already have a pattern for making content, for example, for writing your blog posts, or writing scripts for YouTube videos, whatever it is, you can just plug in the writing of the book into that pattern.
Speaker D [00:18:14]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:18:14]:
And you know, I would point people to like, say, Aristotle's canons of rhetoric, for example, so, like finding how to structure something in a more conventional way, the way you might structure your, like a high School essay, for example. That's always a good starting point because you're presenting a thesis and then you're trying to prove it, right. You're making a strong case for it. So if you're following a structure like that and then at every point just expand and then before you know it, you'll have ideas for chapters and then those ideas fleshed out further will be become chapters as well. AI is helpful, of course. I would never, you know, openly condone pure AI writing. There should, there should be a human being behind it. The most useful thing I found in, in my own writing, for example, is using AI for research because, you know, you can do a lot of Google searching to find statistics, especially if you're finding like information about things that happened long in the past, whatever it is.
Speaker C [00:19:18]:
Getting all that information One place through ChatGPT, for example, is extremely useful. Yeah, my one caution is that it hallucinates quite a bit.
Michael [00:19:29]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:19:30]:
So you kind of have to verify the information. If anything seems outrageous, keep an eye out for that. But in an effort to take advantage of AI writing and again democratizing the whole publishing landscape, we are developing something called Memoir co writer. And you can find more information about it@memoircowriter.com and it's an AI writing assistant. So what it essentially does is through a series of prompts that are answered by the user, it will basically spit out a memoir based on your life. Now the issue of hallucination is a major problem with, with AI chatbots and, and, and any AI tool in general. So what we have in this program, interestingly enough, is like three AI programs, two that talk to each other, one to gather information and disseminate the information, another to govern style, and then another one. Basically we're calling it the oversight committee right now.
Speaker C [00:20:43]:
And that ensures that every piece of information that is in the final product has a reference back to something that the user had said. So there are ways of mitigating these hallucinations and, and I, I think this is going to be a great way for people to be able to. Anyone to write a book.
Speaker D [00:21:03]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:21:04]:
Whether they are, no matter their level of education, whatever it is.
Michael [00:21:10]:
So walk me through this. So this memoir co writer. If I'm somebody with no previous book writing experience, but I am super keen to create a published book but don't know where to begin, how could I actually use this software to get my ideas out there and get them into.
Speaker C [00:21:30]:
A cohesive nature so you'll be taken on a journey? It's not unlike Duolingo, right? If you've ever used an app like that, you have like very short, brief modules, just 10 minutes a day you could do, or you could do hours a day if you wanted. But it's meant to just get a little bit of information out of you every day and by asking a series of questions related to say, a particular part of your life, whether it's like education or your kids, whatever, whatever it is. And from there you'll be notified when a chapter is ready, right? So you'll do a few modules and then after a certain point, when a certain amount of information has been put in, a specific chapter will be ready based on that information. And then you'll move on to the second group of modules and so on.
Michael [00:22:29]:
I love it. It feels so accessible and like you're just chipping away at it like bit by bit, but also using pre existing templates and having people ask you questions. I find that for me, and I know a lot of our listeners, we sit down to a blinking cursor and it's like, well, I want to write something, but I literally have no idea where to begin. Even though there's so much that I could talk about but with a prompt or if somebody asked me a question, I can always answer it. And like there is so much to share, but it's sometimes just about having that structure, even with social media. Like I will email myself questions each morning that I sit down and answer because then it gets my mind stirring a bit faster than if I were just like, huh, what do I want to talk about today? Or which chapter should I write? So having that prompt of just like, no, answer this question and then answer that one and then we're going to tie it all up and write a chapter and then you review it, right? It's kind of like having that back and forth ping pong dynamic of like you input and then you read what the output is and go back and forth until you get it the way you want it.
Kelsey [00:23:37]:
Hey, visionary, the search engine game is changing fast. I mean, how many times now do you open up ChatGPT where you used to actually just open Google or Bing? AI driven tools like ChatGPT are rewriting the rules of what it is to play the digital marketing game.
Michael [00:23:56]:
But don't panic.
Kelsey [00:23:57]:
You just need to pivot ever so slightly if you want to rank your business in ChatGPT and, and if I could just interject for a second and go off script. I am getting so many leads these days who are saying to me, I found you on ChatGPT so here's the deal. You guys know I'm passionate about SEO. Google still matters, but AI is a new layer to this game that you cannot ignore. If you want quick wins, I want to teach you exactly how you can do it and I want to simplify it for you. What you can do is head over to kelseyridle.com chatgpt I have a brand new free bonus training on how to rank on AI search engines, how to rank on ChatGPT essentially.
Michael [00:24:40]:
So I want you to jump in.
Kelsey [00:24:41]:
And future proof your marketing strategy. Grab this free training Kelsey ridle.com Chachi BT or click the link in the bio. This Training is only 30 minutes long and it's going to teach you everything you need to know to get more leads, more clients and more money into your bank account.
Speaker C [00:25:00]:
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, in some sense they're glorified writing prompts, right?
Michael [00:25:04]:
Yeah.
Speaker C [00:25:05]:
So you're reacting to everything. Although there will be certain sections where you don't have to write anything at all when you're putting like basic biographical data like people's birth dates or things like that. But by and large you, you will be writing. So that's why it's called co writer. You're just getting a little bit of help. Right, to get to that next step, but to start that chain reaction that ultimately leads to a finished book.
Michael [00:25:30]:
That's so exciting. And before we kind of keep going in the conversation, where can people learn more about co writer if they are intrigued and if they want to get early access to it?
Speaker C [00:25:40]:
So the website is memoircowriter.com that's M E M O I R c o w r-I t e r.com and we're building a waiting list right now and it's in active development but it's not quite available yet. So if you sign up at the website, you'll, you'll get early access to the application. It's really exciting.
Michael [00:26:05]:
We'll put that in the show notes too so that people can click it easily. I want to get into some like, super practical tips for the person who's listening, who's leaning in. Like, I really want to write a book, but I don't want to F this up. Like, I want to get it right. What are some of the biggest mistakes that you see first time authors make? Like, are there things we need to watch out for, red flags, common issues you are always dealing with? Like, what are some of those things you can advise us against doing so that we make this journey as Easy as possible for first time authors.
Speaker C [00:26:38]:
So there are a number of things. The major issue I've noticed is authors either underestimating or overestimating their abilities. Now the underestimating comes in the form of self doubt and, you know, questioning their ability to actually write a book. This is throughout the writing process, even after they finish the manuscript. This kind of underestimation of their own talents takes the form of, say, I don't know, I don't have what it takes to edit this properly. It's a very rough manuscript. Just take care of it. Where, you know, we, we can work with anything.
Speaker C [00:27:13]:
Right. I'm, I'm a trained editor. I can get that into publishable form.
Michael [00:27:19]:
Yeah.
Speaker C [00:27:19]:
However, you know, there's a lot that it's a big opportunity that's missing to have you not refine your own work as an author.
Speaker D [00:27:30]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:27:31]:
So that's one example of underestimating. Overestimating often comes in the form of, you know, I can do the COVID design myself, I can, I know how to typeset the interiors, I know everything there is to know about sending this to print or what have you. Where in reality, it's very rare to find an author who is an author and an editor and a designer and a book marketer and all these things in one. You may have varying levels of skill in these things. You certainly as an author will have some insight onto what will work as the COVID Right. What cover art will speak to the text. However, you know, there are so many mechanical details even in the writing that I advise every author to at least have a professional take a look.
Speaker D [00:28:27]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:28:27]:
If you're not going to do a full scale edit, maybe just a manuscript evaluation, for example.
Michael [00:28:32]:
So yeah, an author who comes to you and they have their manuscript, but they're like, I don't know what to do from here. What are some of those main buckets of support that you can give to someone who's nearly ready to get this book out into the world?
Speaker C [00:28:48]:
Well, what we've developed is we call it Folio's four stage path to Publishing Success. And it's, it marks four major milestones along the journey. The first would start with planning. So in the planning stage, you want to figure out who your target audience is, who, who are the readers in your genre, what do they expect? And, and you know, we don't want to just entirely cater to them and what they might be expecting, but it is wise to be informed of what potential readers who are also potential customers expect of your book and then what, as we move through the other stages of the process like editing and design and eventually marketing. All of that is informed by what we set up at the beginning. So say a mystery novel, for example, There are certain conventions and tropes that you follow with the COVID design. And it would be in most cases unwise to deviate too much from those.
Speaker D [00:29:50]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:29:50]:
Because people are expecting certain things. So that's going to inform how we edit the manuscript.
Speaker D [00:29:58]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:29:59]:
It's going to conform to other books in that genre and then it'll inform the COVID design and then, and then the COVID design and everything else will inform the marketing. So it all starts with a, a very good awareness of the, of your target audience and, and who is actually going to buy this book.
Michael [00:30:21]:
I think that's such an important foundational piece is like really picturing the reader and who's going to be sitting down? Where will they be sitting? What is, you know, like the thing that they want the most? And how does your book meet that expectation? What kind of covers are they attracted to? Like sometimes we can be so wrapped up and thinking, me, me, me. And we're so self centered all the time. But it's a fun. As you were talking, I was visualizing like if I were to write a book, I can see the people who would be my first readers, like beyond just like my family members. And I know exactly like what colors would jump out at them and like the way that I would want to structure the chapters and some of the stories that I could infuse into the book that would resonate most with them. So yeah, I feel like that's a potentially overlooked step, but it's so important to really fast forward and it's almost like that athlete mentality of visualizing the finish line. It's like if you were to watch a bunch of people reading it, like what sentiments are they feeling and what are the emotions that are evoked when they pick up that hard copy. And so sometimes I think it's better to like start at the finish line and then reverse engineer how do I make the best book not only for them, but also, you know, something that I'm proud of and finding a happy medium there.
Speaker C [00:31:39]:
Yeah, I like that notion of, of reverse engineering a book. And you know what I'm saying might sound like too strict of a structure to put on writing what is ultimately a creative project. But I have found in my own writing, and I know many authors who can attest to this, that having a very clear structure is basically, it becomes a sandbox in which you can explore in any way.
Speaker D [00:32:07]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:32:07]:
Having absolutely free, unlimited expression in every direction usually just results in chaos, unless you're a genius and know how to navigate that. So having some form on top of that you're working within is entirely useful and. And extremely helpful.
Michael [00:32:27]:
It reminds me of the quote that discipline equals freedom. It's like when you have those constraints and that discipline, you actually have more freedom. But in this case, it's like, structure creates creativity. It's like when you have that little bit of structure, you can sit down and not feel overwhelmed by a sea of ideas, but instead say, oh, yeah, my topic today or my chapter is. And then pull out the stories, pull out the quotes, pull out the teachable moments. And so I think that balance, and I think this goes for anything in entrepreneurship. You need to have structure, but you also have to make sure that that structure still allows for those creative thoughts and to think beyond what everybody else is doing and think beyond templates all of the time.
Speaker C [00:33:12]:
So definitely. And that's a great way to basically squash writer's block. If you sit down in the morning or whatever time works for you, you sit down and you say, I will write, and I will fill this page in 30 minutes. No matter what it is, the first third of the page is going to be nonsense, usually most of the time. And then you'll start to figure out what you want to say, Right?
Michael [00:33:38]:
Yep.
Speaker C [00:33:39]:
And you proceed from there.
Michael [00:33:42]:
Yeah, I. I've done or dabbled in the artist morning before or, sorry, is it called the artist's way? And it's like that practice where you sit down with blank pages. And she often says, yeah, like, even if you just write, I have nothing to write. I have nothing to write. I have nothing to write. Eventually your morning pages become like this whole expression of things that you didn't even know were inside of you. And even though, for me, I'm, like, so resistant to sit down and write with no purpose but the things that come out, I'm like, who wrote that? Like, where? But you have to have the practice of it. Otherwise nothing can come through because you're not allowing it to.
Speaker C [00:34:23]:
Yeah. Imagine a runner only running when they're inspired to do so.
Speaker D [00:34:28]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:34:29]:
Like, it doesn't work that way. You got to train every day, and. And writing is no different.
Michael [00:34:34]:
Do you have any suggestions for somebody who's not in a writing ritual right now, but they know the finish line is, I want to write a book. But they're just. They're not in routine. They're not exercising that Creative muscle. What could they do in this moment over the next seven to 12 days? Like, what are some tips that you would share with someone who knows they want to work with you, but they're definitely not in a good routine of putting their creative work out to the world?
Speaker C [00:35:04]:
I would say just have the next goal in mind at the center of your attention, not the final goal. Because you know, when you're thinking, I have to write 60,000 words, I've got zero words, it's never going to happen.
Kelsey [00:35:19]:
Yeah.
Speaker C [00:35:20]:
If you say it's not really that great to have like a word limit, but let's say your first milestone is just get a hundred words down.
Speaker D [00:35:30]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:35:30]:
And then from a hundred, you like just do this 10 more times and it's a thousand.
Speaker D [00:35:34]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:35:35]:
And you, you, you build up from there. So I would say, like I said earlier, having just this, a certain amount of time, every day or every week, whatever you can manage. And, and, Right. No matter what, it can be entirely unrelated. You will find something relating to the topic that you eventually want to tackle in your full length book.
Speaker D [00:35:56]:
Right.
Michael [00:35:58]:
For somebody who is confident in the writing process, they're excited to, you know, get it put together, published, but they're worried about the marketing piece and they want to sell books. They want to make sure that more than two people read it and it's not just their mom and their kid. What are some of the things that you see successful authors doing now that help them to eventually sell more copies of their book? Like how do we make sure that we do sell 100 or a thousand copies of a published book?
Speaker C [00:36:35]:
Well, the, the most important factor is being aware of genre, as I mentioned earlier.
Speaker D [00:36:41]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:36:41]:
So your genre, your target audience, and be very specific. So if it's business books, it's not just business books, it's entrepreneurship or it's marketing or it's how to do public speaking, whatever it is.
Speaker D [00:36:56]:
Yep.
Speaker C [00:36:58]:
Be very specific and then you can see what people are looking for, what, what they say in reviews for, for these books, for example.
Speaker D [00:37:06]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:37:07]:
Look at the three and three star and below reviews.
Speaker D [00:37:10]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:37:11]:
And see what people found lacking in these books and try to speak to that. Another thing to keep in mind is that there's this notion that if you go traditional publishing, you don't have to do as much marketing. That is entirely false. In 2025, self published authors and traditionally published authors have to do the same amount of outreach on their own. You might have a little more support from a traditional publisher, although that does vary. By and large, you're going to be doing the same amount and it's, you know, staying active on social media, doing outreach and, and events at, say, local libraries, workshops, that sort of thing. So it's just always being at. At the top of mind for people, like with any other marketing effort.
Speaker D [00:38:00]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:38:01]:
And providing value beyond just trying to sell the thing that you're giving them.
Michael [00:38:05]:
Right, yeah, yeah. I'm actually chatting with a girl tomorrow morning and she's currently on a book tour, which I thought was really clever. She has a smaller audience, but she's stopping in different cities. She's hosting events at coffee shops, inviting out the local community and showing up for her followers, her fans, the people who are going to be the early readers of the book. And not only will she be able to connect with these people in person, but I'm like, it also provides such a PR opportunity, like to have everybody in person holding up copies of your book. You have marketing materials for quite a while. Right. And it really brings the book to life.
Michael [00:38:47]:
So I thought that was really cool to like, think about this concept of a book tour. But you don't have to get on airplanes and go speak all across the world, but you kind of have to create momentum, get people excited, give them teasers. She's reading chapters on Instagram right now, which I also thought was really clever. And I listened to one of the chapters on an Instagram live and I'm like, oh, my gosh, I want more. Like, of course I'm going to buy the book now. So I feel like, yeah, there's so many clever things you can do to just intrigue people enough and just create excitement around a book launch. Because I think you said it's like a monumental moment to get to that finish line and to have that hard copy in your hands. And so why not celebrate it and do all that you can to make it an absolute smashing success?
Speaker C [00:39:33]:
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And, you know, all your marketing efforts come. Well, they're informed by what, everything that happened before.
Speaker D [00:39:41]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:39:42]:
So it's your genre of research, but it's also the COVID design, the interior type setting. It's not just the COVID design. And this is another reason to hire a professional to, to get your cover design done. Is that that design language, like any other design language of any other brand.
Michael [00:39:59]:
Yep.
Speaker C [00:39:59]:
Is informed by that cover design. So it's, it's on your marketing materials, it's on your social media posts, the T shirts you make, bookmarks, whatever it is, it's all a cohesive thing. So that when an Outsider sees it while scrolling, they're going to recognize it and maybe pause.
Speaker D [00:40:17]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:40:17]:
And give you some attention.
Michael [00:40:20]:
Yeah, I love that visual of like, would you wear your book cover on a T shirt? Are you that proud of it? Or if not, maybe it's time to go back to the drawing board and work to find a cover that you know is going to resonate and that you feel excited about and proud to wear to rep it. Um, so, yeah, it's really fun to think about. All right, so in wrapping up, last question for you. What is one thing someone can do today if they have writing a book on their vision board, but they feel like they're spiraling, they have no idea where to begin. They just don't know what to do in this moment. What is one tip that you would give them so that they can advance this process a bit?
Speaker C [00:41:03]:
It sounds trite, but, you know, just start writing. And as an addendum to that is stop planning. You can plan later, just get anything. I can't stress this enough because it's worked for me and I think it can work for anyone. You just get something on paper and it's preferable to use a pen, you know, to actually like feel the rhythm of the words rather than just typing mechanically. So that would be my first piece of advice. And beyond that, I'd say, like, just be open to the world around you. Again, it sounds a little trite, but there is an infinity of things to write about.
Speaker D [00:41:46]:
Right.
Speaker C [00:41:46]:
And you can write about anything and, and from that, tie it into the eventual thesis of, of your book.
Speaker D [00:41:52]:
Right.
Michael [00:41:54]:
I love it. Well, Michael, if people are feeling inspired, they want to reach out, maybe hear more about Folio services. Where are the best places for them to connect with you and to find you?
Speaker C [00:42:06]:
So best place to reach me is@folio print.com that's f o g l I o pint.com. we do basically weekly master classes all about the publishing process. We get really detailed on that four stage process that I mentioned earlier. And beyond that, we've got memoir co writer. So I. I'd urge you to sign up and join the waiting list and you'll be the first to find out when we have an update. And yeah, thanks for having me, Kelsey.
Michael [00:42:37]:
Amazing. Well, this has been awesome. Thanks for sharing all your wisdom and getting us pumped up to write our books and we wish you all of the best.
Kelsey [00:42:46]:
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Visionary Life.
Michael [00:42:49]:
I love bringing you these conversations on a weekly basis. So it would mean so much to me if you could help me out by rating and reviewing the show on.
Kelsey [00:42:57]:
Either itunes or Spotify. It just takes a second.
Michael [00:43:01]:
And if you don't want to rate.
Kelsey [00:43:02]:
The the show, you could also just take a screenshot of the episode and share it on your social media platform of choice. Tagging me at Kelsey Rydle. I'll catch you in the next episode.
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