326 How-To Guide to Reprogramming Your Life (Breathwork, Mushrooms, Meditation, etc.)
Thinking Outside of the Box
with Jason Brown
This week I am re-sharing an episode that I recorded with my friend and visionary entrepreneur, Jason Brown.
Jason is someone who thinks outside of the box and challenges his way of being & thinking every single day.
He's always challenging his own beliefs and looking at things from different perspectives, he's also not afraid to take risks, and he's always seeking out new opportunities - something he calls ‘Following The Nudges’.
This willingness to try new things has led to his success in a variety of ventures.
Some of the other awesome things you’re going to learn from Jason in the podcast include:
The Benefits of Getting Into Your Body: whether that’s by doing mushrooms, practicing breathwork, doing meditation, or taking long walks -- whatever you need to do to stop suppressing your emotions and feelings so that you can truly connect to what your mind and body are saying is going to be SO advantageous for your personal and professional growth.
Using humor to overcome fear and hesitation
The books or resources that have inspired him on his professional journey
The critical shift from external validation to internal validation for true fulfillment.
Jason's goal is to deprogram himself
Episode Time Stamps:
[15:49] Avoiding self-awareness to escape life’s hardships
[18:43] World travels bring self-discovery and new learning.
[23:56 ] Seeking creative, innovative projects that change the world.
[29:27] Choosing positive, forward-thinking information leads to growth.
[37:53] Helping kids grow differently, long-term impact.
[45:28] Recognizing need to delegate for business growth.
[50:51] Consistency and dedication lead to success.
[53:25] Mentors and community empower personal and business growth.
[01:00:54] Creating platform for families to make epic trades and gamify learning
[01:05:02] Connecting with your body, nature, and emotions in order to generate ideas
To connect with Kelsey:
Access the transcript for this episode:
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You are listening to the Visionary Life podcast. I'm your host, Kelsey Reidl.
Each week, I'll bring you conversations with the most visionary humans on this earth in hopes that you'll be able to absorb their wisdom, avoid their failures, and feel less alone on the roller coaster ride that is entrepreneurship. This season, I'll be chatting with creative thinkers, masterful marketers, brick and mortar shop owners, brand builders, and people just like you who have a story to share or a vision that inspires. If I can share one quick secret with you before we get into the episode, it's that we all have a little bit of visionary inside of us. You know, that spark that nudges us to pursue our full potential in this lifetime. But perhaps somewhere along the line, it got covered up. I'm here to tell you that it's never too late to explore that inner voice and access the brilliance deep down inside of you.It's in you. It's in all of us. Let's dive in. Hey, visionaries. Welcome back to the show. I wanted to take just a quick second up top to let you know that this is going to be a re air episode of one of our top downloaded podcasts from the last six years. This is an amazing episode. I know you're going to get tons out of it, and the reason why I'm doing this is because I'm just taking one extra month of maternity leave.
I've been working in the business. I have a full roster of one on one clients, but I'm really trying to prioritize just a few key things each day. So while we get season 13 prepped and we bring you interviews with Alexandra Watkins, who's a branding expert, Melissa Ramos, who's a top online nutritionist, we have Amanda Getz, who's an amazing, amazing entrepreneur who's already bought and sold businesses. In that meantime, we're going to re air this episode, and I'm just so grateful that you're still here. You've enjoyed the content and a bit more of the sporadic nature of the show over the last few months as I've become a new mom and I can't wait to come back with fresh content in just a few weeks. So enjoy this episode, and as always, I'd love to hear from you on instagram. I'm Elsie Rydel. If you listen to this episode and you have any golden nuggets that you'd like to reflect back to me.
So enjoy the show and I'll see you on the other side. Today I am sitting down with someone I met on an impromptu trip to Los Angeles one year ago, and his name is Jason Brown. Jason is the visionary entrepreneur behind a brand new tech startup for kids and parents called Drip Drop, and he's also the founder of an investment company called Misfits Global, where the vision is to invest in hundreds of startups in the coming years. In addition to learning more about Jason's most recent project, Drip Drop, we are also chatting about Jason's previous chapters, including his time working for one of the hottest tech startups, chasing elite status and doing all the things you think you should do in that world. But ultimately, Jason realized that it wasn't fully fulfilling him and he knew something was missing. Fast forward to today and Jason is almost unrecognizable from who he was a decade ago. We talk about this sharp contrast inside of the episode, and I know you are going to love it. In this conversation, he shares openly about why he says yes to things that scare the hell out of him, the role that journaling, meditation, psilocybin, and breath work have played in his entrepreneurial journey, ways to identify your inner programming, and also how to deprogram what doesn't belong to you or just doesn't serve you anymore.
And so, so much more. Jason offers a lot of interesting perspectives in this episode, and I cannot wait to hear your takeaways. You might even want to bookmark this one so that you can listen twice. I'll also share three of my favorite takeaways on the other side of the conversation, so make sure you tune in right until the end. And one last thing before we jump in, I learned in this episode, as you'll hear us talk about that, both drip drop and the visionary life brand started in very similar situations while we were hiking in the mountains. That might just be my next piece of wisdom for anyone who wants to start a business or to grow their next business, but has no clue where to begin, just go to the mountains and it will come to you. If you want to learn more about drip drop, just head to dripdrop. GG.
Yes, that's a GG at the end, or you can find them on Insta or TikTok. And if you'd like to connect with Jason, he's incredible. He's most active on Twitter and on Clubhouse, and you can find them at the jasonbrown. So enjoy this episode and I will see you on the other side. Jason Brown welcome to the visionary Life podcast. I actually want to start this conversation by rewinding back maybe three months ago when I first asked you to come on the podcast, and your response was, something along the lines of, it scares the hell out of me, which means I need to do it. I'm curious, is this your approach to everything that scares the hell out of you? Is this your operating system for any big decision or small decision in life? Where did that come from?
I would like to tell you that the answer is yes. And it's a resounding no. Is that usually when something scares me, I'm like, yeah, I'm a massive avoidant at it, but I think it's a skill. I think it's a skill to break through the fear and to kind of laugh at your own programming. So I'm constantly thinking about, what's my default program? Right? And my default program. I think, like a lot of us, it used to always be like, hmm, how do I evaluate this, right? And we're so programmed to think about the fear side of it. What could go wrong? Oh, my God, that's out of my comfort zone, etcetera. And you start thinking about, okay, if that's my default programming, what's the reverse of that? And so one of my things that I've been trying to focus on even as a 48 year old, is to start thinking about, hey, instead of thinking about how it can't work, how about, what is the promise if it does work? And so when you start saying things like, hey, come do this thing that I actually don't do all the time, or sounds a little scary, it's like, hmm, if you feel that, if you're sitting there and you're like, oh, that feels a little like a big no, it probably means it should be a yes, because it's like, right there, that's where the growth is going to be.
Yeah. And so when you said that to me, I just started laughing at myself because my natural reaction was, no way am I doing that. But there was another ping where it was like, yeah, dude, that's going to be awesome. You should totally do it.
I really like that idea of challenging ourselves to flip the narrative, because I think, like you said, our default programming is always to say, I'm not good at basketball. I could never be an entrepreneur. But it's like, if you can get in this mentality of saying, I could be good at basketball if I practiced, or, um, anyone can become an entrepreneur if they are dedicated and passionate. And it's like, where are all these places in our lives that we're actually letting our default programming hold us back from our limitless potential? And I think the answer is in a lot of fricking areas. So I think that's really interesting to catch yourself in those moments. But it actually takes so much self awareness and self work to be able to even notice those thoughts that are holding you back. Right?
Yeah. And it was funny because when I was texting you, I was laughing to myself because I had that awareness of, like, hey, normally you'd be like, no way am I going to go do that and put myself out there because there's risk. Right. But really what I was already laughing about was, I'm totally going to go do it because I've been making choices to say, hey, this isn't your programming. Right? Like, what programs do you already run in your life? I call them loops. But what are those loops that came from your family, your upbringing, your current environment, all the ways that you've just kind of been automatically running your life. And because I've been doing so much work on identifying them and then doing reprogramming, the first step is kind of that awareness. And for me, it's like having, I'm in the stage now where I kind of laugh when they come up.
So when I have one of those moments where like, ooh, that sounds riskier, ooh, that sounds fearful, or, oh, you're not supposed to do it that way. My default action now is to break it with humor so that you can analyze what, okay, what do you really want to do here? Why is there some fear there? And I also realize, you know, talking to so many other entrepreneurs or just, you know, even when you listen to some of the really high powered people that are really killing it out there and any athletes or, you know, some of the celebrities, whatever, when you, when you really break it down, there's something that they always keep saying, which is like, the fear doesn't go away. Right. It's just something that, it's just part of the process. And I start realizing, like, huh, like, what else do you have fear over? That's just your default programming that you can still embrace and honor and kind of laugh about and choose a different action. Right. Because fear isn't an action. Right? For me.
It's like you can still have fear over doing something. Fear of the unknown, fear of what if it works and still actually go through? And when you get over that, you start realizing, huh, okay, now you just start accepting it. You're like, oh, okay, I expect the fear to come up because that's a program that's always just kind of there, and you can kind of honor it, hang out with it a little bit and be like, yeah, all right, cool. Of course you're here, but that's not the path I'm choosing. I'm going to go try this other thing instead.
So when you say you're doing work to identify your default programming, is there anything you can share with the listeners of what you're actually doing? I get that you just recognize in a moment, oh, that's my default programming. You giggle and then try to change it. Has there been anything that has worked in helping you to accelerate this process? Tools or just tricks that you've applied?
Yeah, definitely. One is just the self analyzation of, like, what are all the things that over time, you know, when you do your journaling, when you do your morning routines, when you're reflecting on, you know, past notes, right now is a perfect time because it's just past New Year's, right? Everyone's doing their, you know, what am I going to do for 2021? And when you look at those, it's like, what are those patterns that keep coming up of things that you really actually desire and things that you wish that you went to do? And then you start peeling back and looking at, huh. I keep saying I want these things in my life. I keep saying I want to attract these things. I keep thinking I have the capability or the desire to go do it. And if I could dream it, why am I not doing it? And so I started really asking myself that question. It's like, wow, you have all these incredible ideas. You could go help so many people.
It's like, what's holding you back? And you dig into it, and you dig into it, you start realizing that it's almost always some program that you're running. And then you're asking, how am I doing the work? Well, I'm involved with so many other entrepreneurs through, like, masterminds, like how we met. It's like you meet other people on different journeys, but they're all on the journey of trying to create a better life for themselves through entrepreneurship and for others. And you realize they're all running programs, too. It's like once you start paying attention to it, for me, it's like a dog whistle. It's like you could just see it, right? And you can see where people are holding on to limiting beliefs, or they have this amazing desire to go do something epic, and then they get lost right on the first few steps because they don't know how. Or some program kicks in. And then the other big thing that I started doing was doing inner work.
And I know that sounds woo woo, but I've totally embraced it and kind of embraced my hippie capitalist self. And it's like you can have both sides. You can still want to be in innovation and tech and entrepreneurship, but you can still work on yourself. And I would say the biggest thing that changed that was doing breath work and really getting into, like, your body. Because what I noticed is the more breath work I do, it actually gets my conscious brain out of the way. And when it gets your thinking brain out of the way, all that fear goes away, too. So your natural programs move aside for a little bit and you get all these magical downloads. And so for me, it's like those downloads really guide and give you awareness of, like, hey, what keeps coming up here? And when I follow those things or put them into action, magical things just start to happen.
And it's incredible. It's like once you get your own programs out of the way, you realize that they're not yours, right? And that you can start removing them.
One by one is the ultimate destination, then, in your opinion, to get to a point where you are completely deprogrammed so that you can tap into your limitless potential and become the visionary entrepreneur and the free thinker that you want to be. Like, is that where you're headed? Where you want to go?
Yes, absolutely. Because what I think I've realized, especially the last couple of years and especially in 2020, is that the game of life is an internal game. And it's like we play it externally with all these other things that we're chasing, but it's really internal. And the more that you focus on how you react to things, what is your programming, the more you can make peace with all the other things that are happening externally. And, you know, like, I've done those things. You know, I've chased all those things that you're supposed to do, you know, get the house with the picket fence, drive the Porsche, travel the world, you know, be successful, get into the 1%, like all those things that we think that, you know, how you keep score. And I realized that, you know, all the other people that are also chasing those things, there always seems to be something missing. And I recognize with myself as you start knocking off those things that you think matter on your list, and everyone can have their own list, but for me, it's like, I chased a lot of things, and it was fun.
It's fun going after those. But then when you get there, you realize this doesn't feel like it. It doesn't feel fully fulfilled. And what I realized is, you can chase all those things and you can have a great time doing it, but the fulfillment comes from internally, and that's where the programming comes from. And so it's like rewiring your programming to be like, hmm, can I choose my own self first versus external validation? And so that's something I've been working on. It's like, huh, okay, what are the programs that I run and cherish them, honor them. I quite often laugh at them because you'll see them in others, but where I really see them is in my own family and friends, too. Right? You see them running the same one that you're running.
And so instead of getting frustrated by those, I used to get always frustrated by other people's programs saying, like, don't you see? Don't you see? And I realized, like, you can actually embrace and love other people's programs and chuckle at your own and then have the honor to be the one that gets to cut it, right? So instead of being frustrated that your parents handed you certain loops or that you absorbed them as you were growing up, you can be like, hey, I'm finally the one that has the skills or the awareness to cut it, to cut it forever. And so I really flipped the narrative on it from it being like, a negative frustration to now it's more amusement and humor when they come up and then having honor, the honor to actually cut them so that they don't last, they don't pass them on to my son, or that I don't keep running them myself.
Don't you think it's just easier for most people, though, to go through life kind of feeling numb, not becoming self aware, not needing to do the work, like breath work and self love, so that they don't have to go through this tumultuous journey of learning more about themselves and spending time with themselves because, you know, if I can just keep myself busy, I don't have to pay attention to whether I'm happy or not, whether I'm programmed in a way that is positive impact on my life. Like, I think that's kind of what we're facing at this point, is a lot of people, they don't want to wake up or become unnumbered or do the work, because then you're faced with the reality of what is in your world, and that can be a really hard thing to stare at in the face and go, I don't like where I live. I don't like the job I have. I hate myself. I can't even, like, you know, like, think of who I really am because I've been programmed by my friends and my, you know, terrible partner, so. Gosh, yeah, that's not a question. It's just, I think that is the state of our world right now. We hear so much external noise, but yet, like you mentioned, it's an internal journey that a lot of people maybe just aren't willing to take.
Do you feel like you had to take that journey before you launched your business drip drop because you were kind of in the corporate world doing the traditional path for what, 20 years, 25 years?
I was, yeah, 20 years. And, you know, doing all the things you're, you know, you're supposed to do. It's like, you know, you try to get, you know, into an elite status, you know, chasing all those things. And I was. I was. I was working for one of the hottest startups in the world. You know, we went on a crazy journey, and, you know, in Silicon Valley speak, you know, you're always trying to create a unicorn company, and we were a unicorn many times over. So it was.
It was a wild, wild ride, but it still didn't feel fully fulfilling. Like, I never still really felt like they were my people. Like, I still have a lot of, you know, kind of. I call them brothers and sisters there that I love. And it was an incredible journey, but it's still. Something was missing. And I think one of the things 2020 showed us, and it's something that I was feeling well before that. It's this, like, this drumbeat of, I can be more.
I can do more. Something's missing. And I know there's probably people listening right now that that drumbeat is getting louder. In 2020, by putting so many things on pause, it kind of put everything on the table to allow us to kind of evaluate what. Hey, I actually don't. Now that part of my life is shut off. Huh? Do I miss it? Do I love it? Do I want, do I want to turn that part back on? So I think it's actually a beautiful time to do that analysis. But I got to tell you, it's also, it can be scary when you start to realize, when you start knocking down your programs, it's like, when you remove the ones that are your default, when you remove the ones that aren't serving you fully, which ones do you want to replace them with? And that is fascinating.
And so, you know, I've traveled the world a lot. I've been over 40 something countries, and it's like, you know, people often say, like when you travel, you find yourself. And I totally did. And all those places, amazing, incredible things that I learned. I have friends all over the world. But I'll tell you, this past year of really diving into what programs do you want to run? Who do you want to be? What do you want to stand for? That's been a more incredible kind of world journey in a way. Right? Because it's like when you replace your programs and you're removing some of the default, it's like, what are you going to choose and who do you go for? Who do you go to for that? For guidance and things like that. And that's where things like, you know, breath work and plant medicine and meditation and being in some masterminds and being around other people that are also on that same path of like, hey, there's something different here, there's a different way that we can program our lives, but there's still that, you know, that it's still scary.
It's amazing that I can be 48 years old and being like, huh, okay, I have a lot of freedom now. I have freedom to choose. I've removed some programs, which ones do you want to start up? And it's amazing, and you're right. So to long winded answer to get back to, one of the things I realized is that I was living other people's dreams. And so we took an incredible idea and we made it wildly successful on any way that you would keep score on typical Silicon Valley success. But I recognized that wasn't my dream. I was helping other people meet theirs. And so that drumbeat got louder and louder, and I looked at over 40 startups, whether to invest in or help in, and then there was just one that just the noise wouldn't go away.
And that was one to work on with my son and my to improve our lives. And that was the one, because it wasn't about the financial side of it, it wasn't about the hot Silicon Valley startup side of it. It was, oh, wow, like this one you can do because you think it matters and it's like your dream and you get to do it with your own family, right, starting there. So like that, that felt like a really good nudge, a really good program to run. A lot of people go chasing something to go do because it could be a hot sector or it sounds good, or they can make some quick money. And I've noticed myself every time I go chase those things, even if you win from a financial perspective, it doesn't feel like a full, fulfilling win. Versus now, I can tell you, in the past year, working with some epic people to bring drip drop to life, the goosebumps, those bliss moments. Our good friend that we both love, Giovanni Gio from Archangel, he calls them bliss attacks.
And it's like, I can tell you in the past year I've had more bliss attacks. That tingly feeling that, that like, oh, man, I'm actually on the right path or running the right program. I get those a couple of times a day now, where it might have been a year before you'd get those in some other projects that I've been up to in the last 20 years.
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Use code visionary ten at checkout to save on your healthy planet order. That's visionary ten at checkout. That's incredible. I just got goosebumps even thinking about that. I want to kind of rewind to that chapter in your life where you were considering starting your own thing. Did you know it was drip drop right away or did you have to shuffle through a lot of bad ideas, a lot of uncertainty, maybe a lot of failed attempts, like, how long was that period? And when did the idea really start to sink in that this was the one you wanted to build and run forward with?
It's actually a fun story. I was actually in Mount Tremblant and I was. It was in the summer, and we were hiking up tromblain, myself and my son Dexter, and we had no idea how long it was, and we didn't. We didn't even have water. And so, like, I was as an old man struggling up that hill and we were sitting up there and it was incredible view. And it wasn't called drip drop then it was just an idea. And Dexter started talking to me about it, and he was like, you know, it'd be really cool to do that one together. And that was it for me.
Like the, that rush, the tingles, the vibe, the alignment, whatever you want to call it, just exploded. And so I came down from the mountain as a joke, and when I came down from the mountain, I started telling everybody, hey, we're going to go build this thing. And I could tell you that there was two years there where I was really hunting for something to find that path. And there was a lot of epic projects that I kind of sunk my teeth into a little bit, put the toll on the water and walked away from. One of the big lessons I learned was that I didn't like the projects where we were doing it because it was probably going to make, like, guaranteed money. I wanted to do ones that were going to be creative or be very innovative or potentially change the world. I know that sounds so cliche coming from Silicon Valley guy, but I really looked at those projects, and I'm still working on a couple today, that if I looked at it from day one, it was like, wow, this could actually really change the world. I love those ones.
And all the ones that seem like just a quick buck or you liked it because of the financial metrics they weren't fulfilling. And I've looked at over 40 probably projects in two years. And then, not surprisingly now, because you can connect the dots backwards, the one that you're doing for yourself, that was the one. It was like, what's that drumbeat that you've got? And for me, it was like, oh, my God, I get a chance here to rethink how to help, you know, kids think about this stuff now in their life and not have to be 48 and go through this. And, you know, you can use the Internet to create, like, really the first life school for kids. And that's really what we're doing with drift drop is you really look under the, under the hood. I mean, that's, that's really the mission there. And I realized all those masterminds and things I'm learning at 48, if I could inject those and hand them to my kid now when he's 1314, imagine what him and all his friends and all the other kids that we're going to reach would.
Imagine what they could go do if they don't have to wait till they're 48 to realize that we've got programming and we've got fear and we've got that drumbeat that we're all ignoring as we just keep running those same programs day after day.
It's funny. I don't know if you know, but I got the idea to start the visionary life brand while on a hike. But I was going up Machu Picchu in Peru, and I came back down, came back down the mountain, like. And literally, it was in that moment that I was like, as soon as I get home, I'm gonna start this community. And I didn't know what it was, but it hit me like a ton of bricks as we were escalating the mountain. So there's definitely an actionable tip. Go hike a mountain. If you're feeling confused or lost, it's necessary.
Well, you know. You know, Kels, that's something. I find that when I go for walks, you know, it doesn't have to be in nature because I live in the concrete jungle, but when I go for walks, it's another way, like breathwork, to find the downloads.
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
And it really. It really, really works. There's a book that I love called daily rituals by Mason Curry, and he studies, like, 400 of, you know, kind of literary or authors or scientists, people that have really mattered. And actually, we still remember their names, you know, hundreds or, you know, or years later, and just looking at their daily rituals. And I think you. Look, I'm probably biased because I walk all the time, but I think the number one pattern for all of them, those hundreds of, you know, people that have really impacted the world, they all go for a daily walk to clear their head and to get those downloads.
At this point, it's mind boggling to me that some people do not do that in a day. But it's not surprising, too, because we are so disconnected from nature, we're bombarded with stay inside, watch Netflix, buy this new gaming system. Everything is presented to us in a way that's like, you can have the most fun inside your home. And I love a good, cozy home, but it's like there's something to be said for reconnecting with your roots, which is literally in nature. And just being in the elements, the water, feeling the cold on your face, putting, like, putting your feet on dirt. And, yeah, I don't have the science behind it, but I know for myself it is the place that I come up with all ideas. I problem solve my business. And for me, it's also a way to learn, because I'll pop a podcast in, and it's one of the most amazing things these days that you can do that multitasking of movement and, you know, really, like, learning about anything you could possibly want at the touch of a button.
So, yeah, I love that.
I think that's. I think that's so underrated. It's crazy to me that you can read a book, that someone's life's work.
Yeah.
And now through all these other mediums, like, I love podcasts like you do, and I listen to at least one or two a day.
Yeah.
And again, it's. And it's multitasking, but for me, it's like getting that knowledge download. It's literally like those scenes in the Matrix where it's like, oh, I'm just gonna download that new programming. So going back to the beginning conversation, it's like, okay, as you start freeing up some of your programs, what do you want to inject in? What do you want to start running?
Exactly.
And to me, it's like, okay, who seems to have certain things figured out or who's further ahead on the path that I can learn from? And so I think, you know, like, podcasting is such a no brainer, but I also think about, like, okay, when I see my other friends and family that aren't on this path, and it's like, where are they getting their info? And it's kind of like, for me now, it's like nutrition. It's like, where is your knowledge, nutrition coming from? And I've heard a few podcasters start to talk about that, right? Where it's like, hmm, are you on a steady diet of junk food, nutrition from what you're learning from? Or are you actually eating, you know, mentally, all the downloads you're getting from others, where you're getting all that information, is it positive? Is it life enforcing? Is it innovative? And it's amazing to me that you can just, like, hop online and find incredibly intelligent, you know, forward thinking, like, innovative people and learn the best. And it's like, you can start downloading like that, or you can be downloading what's being fed from other media sources. And it's like, we're getting barraged every day. And I think if you curate it, you can actually get a massive advantage. And I really started to see that compound interest start to really get bigger, because as more people are using, like, these devices that we all have, right, they're coming at us fast. These algorithms are incredible. They're just going to keep feeding you whatever you start with.
So if you actually go get fed by, you know, positivity, you know, working on yourself, self development things, innovative things, you can actually be on the leading edge right now. You could have the latest knowledge or you could have the junk food knowledge.
Yeah.
And I've really noticed the more that I curate, the faster I'm learning.
Yeah.
And faster that I'm able to adopt new programs. Like, I can't believe how fast you can actually change your life just by how you curate where you're getting your knowledge from. Yeah.
I think one of the biggest lessons that I learned maybe five or seven years ago, I don't know when it was, but that I could discern who I paid attention to and who I cut out. And, you know, whether that was by canceling our cable subscription because I didn't need to hear the news or choosing to actually fill my email inbox with newsletters that lit me up. And, like, people say, oh, I hate my inbox. I hate my inbox. I'm like, I love my inbox because I get quality content from the most epic mentors for me. Right. Because I went out and subscribed to the people I love who have thought leadership, and I unsubscribe from everybody else. So I love my inbox, my social media.
Like, it lights me up. Cause I'm learning. I'm not, you know, I'm not looking at what my high school friends ate for breakfast anymore because truthfully, I don't care. Like, I'll catch up with you over the phone, but that's not what I want to funnel into my consciousness if I am going to be spending so much time on my devices and in my inbox. So, you know, it's simple and it's free to be able to do this, to really curate exactly what info you're letting in. Because like you said, it's the compound effect. Like, day after day, you may not realize how terrible the news makes you feel, but guess how that compounds over time. Ten years down the line, you are negative.
You have no hope for humanity. And that's because that's exactly the narrative they are feeding you day after day. So, yeah, I think that's a super important lesson. Now, I want to circle back. You mentioned drip drop a few times. You mentioned your hike in tremblant with your son. What happens from there? Like, you have this idea. It's a big idea.
And obviously you're not just going to be able to go home and type up a little website and bring this to life. So tell us about that journey coming home from tremblant and saying, like, I'm gonna do this. What next? How does it go right.
And that's, it's been an incredible journey, and it's been like such a, like an eye opener for even my own personal growth while I'm watching it come to life. And so one of the things you have to decide is, like, what's your decision tree? How do you make decisions on, how are you gonna craft this company? How are you going to bring it to life? And so what I wanted to do was really focus on, where am I getting those nudges right? So when I'm getting those downloads and letting the downloads guide me more than I would have. And there's a great book by the author, Michael Singer. Most people know his book, the Untethered Soul, but for me, it was surrender experiment. So three years ago, I read surrender experiment, and I put it down. I thought it sucked. And then I revisited it with a different lens. And that lens was to follow the nudges so that when you're getting those moments of where it feels really aligned, can you craft a company that way? Can you craft your mission where you're actually being guided by that interaction with somebody? Like you said earlier, you said you're getting the goosebumps.
Well, can you find those when you're actually in a meeting with somebody, when you're recruiting or you're looking for partners, how does that conversation make you feel? Right? Does it feel forced? Does it feel like it's challenging? Or does it feel like both people are lit up and then they can feel that, that mission? And I started paying more and more attention to that as a woo woo, as ridiculous as it sounds. And I'm coming from crafted Silicon Valley, like, how to build a unicorn life.
Yeah.
And then flipping it to, I'm going to give the nudges a higher metric of evaluation, like giving them a higher multiple when I'm evaluating stuff. And so I just started doing that and started working. And so it was unbelievable to me how many people self selected in to help the mission. Right. People were literally just dropping into my lap saying, oh, my God, I heard what you're up to. This sounds amazing. How can I help? And that pretty much happens every day right now. You.
And the crazy part is, most of my team came to me through me reaching out to them, talking about what I'm up to, and them saying, hey, not only do I love this project, but I have to work on it. Like Sarah Wells, for example. I think, you know, Sarah, my Olympic, Olympic runner, she's unbelievably incredible. And, you know, we were talking about drip drop. And she bugged me every day for, like, two weeks where she's like, I need to be on your calendar. I need to be on your calendar. I want to help you. I want to help you.
I want to help you. And that really kickstarted a whole bunch of things, too. And it was really her seeing the mission and seeing how that could help with her and help us and that self selecting in. And so that's what I would encourage people when they're looking at it, it's like, you know, who's self selecting into the mission that you're on versus who do you have to talk it into? And I can tell you, every time I've tried to talk somebody into it, it's worked out so much less than those that were so excited to be part of it. And that goes from all facets of the business. It's been incredible. When you connect those dots backwards and you really look at it, it's like, huh. All the people where it was a little more, you know, trying to convince.
Yep, they're not on the mission now. Right. Or they. Or they. Or they came and they did a little bit, and we both agreed, you know, that this wasn't win win. And it's incredible. And it's like, it's very counterintuitive, and it doesn't sound very much like business speak, and it's hilarious to compare that to, like, you know, startup growth, but I'm seeing it work every day.
It's interesting because I work with a lot of early stage online business owners, and one of the things that's really hitting me right now is that they're not even clear on their mission, so they're not able to gather that community of people who want to partake or who want to follow or work with them. And so it sounds like for you, before you even started having these conversations with potential collaborators and partners, you were super clear on the mission of drip drop. Is that true?
I wouldn't say it was super clear. We knew what we wanted to do, and that was to really help kids recognize that they could grow up differently and to hand them these tools that they're not getting anywhere else right now. That was the big mission. And it's like, okay, if you're going to help a million families get introduced to, like, these mastermind level techniques that we're talking about that we're trying to figure out, in my age, how would you do it? And so I think the real thing that helps with the mission is I'm always looking way further ahead and thinking about, like, what's the real impact that we want to make? And what's that impact going to impact? So for me, it's like if we can get out to a million families and give these kids these new techniques so that they're growing up differently and they have more self resiliency and courage and understand their own programming and, you know, are, you know, defaulting to a positive program earlier in life, imagine what they're going to go do. And that's what gets me excited about the mission. It's not even the impact we're making on them. It's the impact that they're going to then go make. And when you start thinking bigger like that, you start thinking longer term, then you can start working backwards as to, okay, like now, how do we go do that? And what I've seen in the past, and I see with a bunch of other companies that I help is we're so worried about what to do tomorrow and we forget what the mission is.
And then you get bogged down into the logistics and it's really hard to recruit people onto your mission for them to self select in if all you're focused on is what are we doing tomorrow? And so I really noticed that when we talk about the big mission that we're on, the how starts taking care of itself. And I would also say that most leaders, most visionary leaders, they shouldn't be the ones figuring out the full how. In fact, it probably shouldn't be figuring out the how at all because you should be painting that picture and be really focusing on the bigger vision and letting the people that are into more of the systems thinking and the how and the techniques let them be in their zone of genius. And there's quite a few people that they shine when they've got a visionary leader leading them because they believe in the mission, and then they can be in their zone of genius. And I'm such a big basketball guy, but if you look, there's a secret in basketball. It's like those teams, when they come together, right? Everyone's got a role. And I think it's the same thing in business. It's like when you're on that mission, most of us, as the founder, the leader, the CEO, we get so caught up in trying to do all the how when it's not actually our role.
And there's people that are dying to be that for you, but they're not going to come to you if they don't believe in the mission.
Such good advice I'm curious, how do you balance thinking of what to do next and what you're already doing, so kind of staying in that day to day and inspiring your team versus what you call painting the picture for the next five or ten years. So do you have any calendar tricks that you implement or is it just kind of like, I flow between today and the future just as I please?
No. So the team needs structure. And so I got that from, from Alex Charfen, who I think is amazing.
Yeah.
And it's like, you know, the structure we put in place with the team is to protect them from me. Because every morning when I wake up and go for a walk, I have more downloads. Right. I get incredible downloads on the walk, but I also get them like every sunrise, I just get more ideas. That's not going to stop. And I'm sure there's a lot of people probably listening right now. It's like you're not. The ideas don't stop.
They're not going to stop. It doesn't matter if you're on an epic mission. I still get other incredible ideas. And so it's like, how do you not handcuff and stifle the business? Because every day you're getting more ideas about creativity and where to take it. And so we do put systems in place. So I do things like a daily huddle with my team. Now, we don't do it every day, but we do it most days. And there's a lot of structure there.
But the structure isn't for me. I don't even design it. They design it because they're more systems thinkers and they back me up and so I can't disrupt their version of the how. And in fact, I can only enhance it. And it actually protects the business from me being visionary. It allows them to shine more. And so one of the things we did is we moved the timing of it a little later in the morning because it allows me to have that download time, it allows me to read my curated newsletters and, you know, eat the healthy information in the morning, and it allows me to get out my creative outlet of like, all those ideas and, you know, getting pumped up about the mission and all the things we want to go do, and then we get into more of the systems. So it's a hybrid of both.
But I think that the biggest thing is the how is probably not you, right? And the less hats you're wearing, I think the better. And when I really look and analyze so many companies, the number one loop that I see is founders that are controlling too much and wearing too many of the hats that consist. It's obvious every single time. Every single time.
Have you always been good at kind of, like, releasing the control over the team and what they do and micromanaging? Is that something that just kind of comes naturally to step away and let people shine?
What I. So, yes and no. So giving up that control side is hard, because you, like, you have a fear that you could do it better. But once I started going to people with their zone of genius, it's laughable how much better they are. And so you'll see that. So even for your listeners, when that first time you bring in that other person that's an expert at something that you're not, and you see their version of it, it is laughable how much better it is. And it's like a muscle. It's like training.
So it's a skill to be developed. So the more I let go, the more leverage I got in a positive way. And it's something I had to learn. But I really saw it that when I gave it to someone that was in their zone of genius, it was so much better than I could ever do. And then when I come back with them and they show me what they've done, and then I get to sprinkle my little piece on it, I do still get that potential to uplift, and it's so much better that way. And when you get over that fear and you start to let it roll, then you get addicted to it. So now some days, I'll have a very clear calendar, and I'll be like, huh? What do I do today? Because the team has it all handled. It's actually a very fast.
Those days are hilarious, where I'm like, huh? You've actually outsourced this enough that everyone's in their zone of genius. And honestly, Kelsey, when I talk to so many people that we know in these entrepreneur groups, like, it is the number one that if we go back to the beginning of the conversation, the program, number one program I see is each of the visionary leaders not letting other brilliant people help them on their mission. It's. It like, that's the number one thing. And it's incredible when you do, it's such an awakening, and it changes everything.
Yeah. I love that you, time after time, have identified this in me and in our other colleagues who are in our same mastermind, and you're like, I just keep seeing this over and over, and I fully comprehend it, because I really do believe in that visionary role. And then the integrators and the people who are actually systems oriented, who are experts in their specific areas. But there's just, maybe it's the programming, maybe it's the loops that I just feel like I'm always in that mindset of how do I do this? How do I do this? And I spend time learning and going through the back end of my email marketing system and controlling automations. And I'm like, aren't there people who are full blown experts at this who would be dying to work with someone who has a vision, who needs their support? But, you know, it's taking me a lot of time, more time than I care to admit, to really step into that, that it's not my role to go figure out email marketing, Facebook ads, you know, like all my financial shit. Like, yes, have an idea of it. But I understand to reach that next level, there's definitely something to this philosophy around build the team around you who can do it way better than you ever could. So I think that's a piece of advice that you've shared time and time again that I really do appreciate because it's something that I'm trying to deprogram.
We'll call it right now, a few other things I want to dig into while I have you, especially because one night while we were chatting over a drink, you said that in a future life, or maybe one day, you would like to offer more coaching towards entrepreneurs. But obviously you're quite busy with drip drop. So I figure while I have you on the podcast, I'd love to dig into a little coach's corner with you. Let's do it informally so we can keep it rapid fire or whatever comes to mind. So, first question, I want to know, besides the daily walk, what are some key traits of successful entrepreneurs that you feel like you've distilled down and that you know to be true about finding success as a business owner?
They build in public, and so they fail publicly. I think that's, that's a big one, and that's a program that I've been trying to work on myself because it's not something I've been naturally excited to go do. Much like the beginning of the conversations, like the podcast, my natural inclination is to not share. So sharing publicly, I think that's a big one.
A lot of entrepreneurs face dips in motivation. I'm wondering what keeps you motivated to show up every single day to work on drip drop?
Right now, I laugh at the dips, so I expect them. So instead of beating myself up on it, it's like, expect that it's going to come. And when it comes, I'm like, okay, why am I. What, what's going on today? You know? And what are the things that pull you out of it? You know? Did you go for a walk? When was the last time you did meditation? Have you done a breath work session lately? What have you laughed about? Have you done anything creative? Right? Have you read any books? Where are you? What are you consuming? So I start looking at, okay, hey, why did this bubble up? And almost every time there's an opportunity there, right. There's something that's like yelling at you, basically. So it's like looking, stepping into it. But the first thing I do is I usually start laughing about it and it's like, hello, my old friend. You know, it's coming.
Totally. And the other thing I realized is, and this is so perfect for New Year's, right. It's like we set up all these really challenging things. It's like we're going to change everything overnight.
Yeah.
And you're just setting yourself up generally, probably, to have disappointment. And so there's two techniques that I look at. The biggest one for me is to do them more often than not. That's something I learned from Michael Burnoff. And it's like if you are going to just instill something new in your life, a new habit, a new thing, just do it more often than not, that's a real number that you can achieve. Right? And then if you do it a little bit more often than not, that might only be 70 or 80% of the time, but you're destroying your goal. If you set up 100%, you are only setting yourself up to be disappointed. And that's going to lead to negativity, and it's going to actually have the negative effect to the thing you're actually trying to do.
And the second one is the compound interest. So if you do many new little things more often than not, over time, that compound interest is magical. And I think, as just humans, we're so bad at math, we don't understand the power of that compound interest where it's like a little bit more every day. It's like, no, you don't have to do the walk every day. You don't have to do meditation every day. You don't have to have the perfect morning routine. But if more often than not, you got a few good things in there, that compound interest is going to be so profound as it adds up over time.
Oh, yeah, I see. It all the time. And the book that I gift the most is the slight edge. And it talks about just that. It's, you know, showing up and doing those small things over time, and that gives you that slight edge over everybody else in your industry. And, you know, it's an easy concept, but I think we all need to be reminded of it. And it's interesting, going back to what you were saying about just doing those habits more often than not. I do like that philosophy.
But I also wonder, because I know there's the Jerry Seinfeld method, where when he was trying to become a famous comedian, he had the never break the chain, I think he called it. And so every day he put an x through his calendar when he wrote comedy for 30 minutes. And his philosophy was that if you want to be the best in the world at something, never break the chain, especially while you're building the habit right before you reach that level of success. So I think there's, like, two camps of thinking there. Like them more often than not. But I know there are some people who probably are like, well, that won't be enough for me to be the best or for me to reach my goal. So maybe there is, like, a period in developing a new habit where you should try to commit to it every day and not break that chain until it becomes a positive program that lives within you, and then you can kind of cool it. So I don't know what the answer is to that, but that's definitely, I.
Could tell you from my personal experience, because I'm someone that loves to avoid stuff, right. That the more often than not allowed me the confidence to shatter the result. So more often than not, it's like, whatever, 50 point whatever percent. Yeah, 51%. Let's use that. So, for example, I took it from Tim Ferriss, but I just started making my bed a few years ago, right, just doing it every day. And it started with more often than not. But now it's been years where I've made it every single day, right.
And so the more often than not gave me the skillset where it became more often and more often and more often. Now there's lots and lots of habits where I'm doing almost 100% compliance, and I don't even think about it now. It's just automatic.
Exactly.
So it's like giving you the permission to have success and not beat yourself up, because if you get into that negative loop where it's like, man, I didn't do such and such today. That's not, that's not serving you versus I got a little bit better today at something. And that's even, like, even how we think about from what we're building in drip drop, it's like we know if we can get the kids just a little bit more doing these things every day, over time, it's going to turn into this really, really powerful habit. And that's, that's the idea. It's like giving the skill to do a little bit more every day and take advantage of the compound interest. Hmm.
I'm wondering, I think people are always curious who the coaches, coaches are. So who mentors you or who are you inspired by or who is a leader to you in this moment?
So I have actual mentors and I have ones that they don't know that they are. So the actual mentors is, you know, I do a lot of stuff with Archangel, so I think geo and team and everyone involved there, it's such a powerful community and it's a beautiful community because it's entrepreneurs working on themselves and then that feeds the business. It's not entrepreneurs working on their business. And it's incredible to me to see so many people that are starting to recognize that if they work on themselves, all the rest is the gravy. So that community is really, really helpful to me and then all the people that come from that. There's so many mentors where we're all and mentoring each other, but where I get most of my knowledge on a daily basis is going back to, you know, how are you curating where you're absorbing? You know, so, like, I don't, I don't watch the news. I don't get stuff through advertising platforms. I go direct to source.
Yeah, right. And so for me, I really like podcasts because I can do two things at once. So there's, there's some really great ones that are out there and I highly curate that, too. So one of my favorite ones that I, you know, we say, like, we gift books. So the podcast I gifted the most last year was Matthew Patty, who's, you know, been around in the Archangel community a little bit. He's based in Australia, but his, his podcast is, was incredible because it's like, it's almost like a course on your own internal loop. So I really like that one. And I usually give that to people that are on this path and David Nagel, who's another awesome guy around programming.
So I kind of give people those two. And that's like, when people say, hey, what gift, what book do you give the most? Those are the two podcasts that give people the most, because it's all around mindset and it's all around that internal growth. And it's like, if you focus on those things, I think that compound interest on yourself is going to manifest in so many ways.
I remember when I first joined Archangel and I was expecting it to be so, like, business focused and, like, give me the tools and tactics and then realizing it was entrepreneurs working on themselves and realizing that this is exactly what I need. It's what we all need, right? I don't need another framework for how to write sales copy. I think we've gotten enough of that from enough sources. And I remember being like, oh, I see what this is. And how this is actually what I needed that I didn't know I needed. So, yeah, pretty cool to kind of come into the community for one reason and then have your eyes open to, oh, what this actually is. It's like the sell them what they want, give them what they need.
So I think that's strategic philosophy. I met Gio three years ago, and our conversation started with where he's like, what? You know, like, what do you want to do next? And I was like, I'm not sure what I'm going to do next. And he's like, look, I got 100 people you need to meet. Can you fly to San Diego in a couple days and come meet all these amazing entrepreneurs? And it was the first time because I'd spent so much time in Silicon Valley and building startup world, and that's kind of growth at all costs. It was the first time that I met other people consciously building up businesses, and it wasn't growth at all costs, it was growth. Yeah, absolutely. But it wasn't at all cost. It's that second part of that phrase, and it's something I've really embraced.
It's like, can you build an amazing mission and impact a lot of people without blowing up your own life in the process?
So important, besides the lack of team building and seeking out the who, what do you think is holding most entrepreneurs back?
Cost versus investment. So most entrepreneurs that I meet up with, they're so worried about the costs, and they even treat bringing in people in their zone of genius as a cost. And it's not. It's an investment, and it's an investment in leverage. So I'll give you an example. Like, you can easily just google it, but if you look at, like, Apple or Facebook or some of the top companies in the world, they actually track how much revenue and profit they get per employee. And so it's a way to think about it. So it's an investment.
You know, they pay at the top of the market, but they know that they're going to get through leverage and multiple value of stacking all these brilliant people together, that there's going to be way more value than the actual cost. So it truly is an investment. And what I see time and time again with most entrepreneurs is they get lost in the cost and they don't look at it as an investment. And so if you invest in other people to help your mission, they're going to get that back many, many times over. Plus, we always forget to add the part of the stuff you're not working on frees you up to be in your zone of genius. And so it's actually a no brainer investment. And most of us look at it as a fearful cost. And that's the number one thing that I see.
It's like when you look at, even if you use Archangel, for example, the difference between seeing the entrepreneurs that are starting out and those that are on the council, the difference is leverage and help and investing in their companies, investing in their mission. That's it. It's not a cost center, it's an investment center.
I love that. Before we let you go, do you want to tell us about drip drop? How we can support it when we can expect to get on the app, give us the full spiel.
The funny part is, when can we expect. I always say it's coming out in two weeks, and I've been saying that for months. You know, software is a wonderful thing, but it's pretty amazing what we're up to. So here's what I figured out with my own son. It's like he lives completely online now. And you can be upset about that, you can be frustrated about it, and you can be annoyed by it. But look, we're all living online. We're doing this on Zoom, right? And so what I realized is, like, I need to embrace the worlds he's living in, because those worlds have been designed to be more alluring than anything I can introduce him to offline.
And the minute that I embraced that, I started realizing, huh, the things that he loves on there are so important to him that there's leverage that I can get there. And I started realizing, like, there's so many things I want to introduce him to, like what we're doing here, you know, mastermind, podcast, all these new habits. And I realized I could trade him for the things I wanted him to upgrade his life with for the things that he wanted to upgrade his life with. And these systems online, they're designed to keep us coming to them. And so if you think Instagram and Facebook and TikTok are addictive, imagine being a kid where all your friends are inside a video game, playing together. You're laughing, you're having fun. They've got these currencies. You're doing trades like, it's so alluring.
It's fascinating to me just how strong these platforms are. But what I realized is instead of fighting it, we can actually use it. And so what we do is we trade the kids for more of what they want to get, more of what we want them to do. And so it's been amazing because I've watched Dexter start to do breath work. I watched him start doing TRX workouts without me having to ask him. And he does lots and lots of meditation. And that's what started off. Now we've got a 14 year old that, yeah.
Does he game a lot and does he love it? Yes, he does. But he's super happy about that. But I'm super happy about that. He's got these new skills. And so what we've created is a platform where all families can start making these epic trades. And then what we realized is, okay, now that we have the kids attention again, what do we want to teach them? So it's like going back to the beginning conversation when you break somebody's loop, what is the new program you want them to run? And that's when I realized I need some world class experts to offer up new programming for these kids. So we've gone out through our archangel community and others around the world, and now we're collecting these master level talent, like yourself, that are teaching the kids some of these epic lessons. And so that as by part of doing one of those lessons, they can actually earn the things that they want.
And so the parents are happy. The kids are happy. And it's amazing when you actually have a win win trade. Not I win, you lose. It's amazing the magic that happens when you actually have win win. And the kids light up. They feel like they're gaming the parents.
Yeah.
And then as a parent, I feel like I'm gaming him because I totally got him to do meditation now. And he's super happy.
It's cool because you are speaking to this generation in a language they understand. It's like, yeah. Yelling at him, saying, like, you've already hit 2 hours on your ps four or whatever. The kids are gaming on these days. Yeah. That could be one language of trying to communicate a point. Your language is trades and. Okay, well, you want to do that, then do something that I think you should be doing, too.
And I love, love, love that you recognize that it is important to make sure that you speak to them in a way that they understand and that motivates them. We live in, it totally motivates them.
Yeah.
We live in this gamified world. And I think it's so cool and extremely innovative what you guys have created. Everything down to your branding and the avatars that you have on the website and on social media and on your sweater there. Everything is very eye catching and captivating, and it totally draws me in anytime I see something that you guys create. So I am so pumped to see the launch and to become a client. Even though I don't have kids, I don't need to trade anything. But I think my husband, he could probably be gamified a little bit to get on offline, too. So, yeah, I love it.
Well, thank you. You know what's amazing there is that, you know, all that design and, you know, kind of how it works. All that stuff is like, that's not stuff I figured out. So going back to, you know, what we were talking about, it's like, I brought in other people that were so excited about the mission. And when you start stacking this together, this is what. This is what comes out. And the other thing is, you know, who we ask the most? What do they want? The kids.
Yeah.
And it's amazing. You know, like, that's another tip that's so obvious, it's so cliche. But it's like, how many of us are trying to build something right now and we've actually forgot to ask the customer what they want.
Right? So awesome. You have packed this episode with so many takeaways and so many things to think about. I will link everything in the show notes from the books you recommended to everything drip drops. So we really appreciate your time and wish you all the success in the launch and cannot wait to see drip drop in action and to spread it all around the world with you. So congratulations on everything and thank you for sharing your time today.
Thank you. It's been amazing and you're amazing.
Jason Brown, everybody. Somebody who always drops a lot of wisdom, so much insight with such a big sky mindset, yet a grounded energy. Every time I get a chance to talk to him, I leave feeling inspired. And I'm always learning new things from Jason. He's a lot further down the entrepreneurial path than I am and maybe than you are. The thing is, though, he comes to this conversation with such a willingness to share and to teach what he has learned in order to help all of us accelerate our journeys as entrepreneurs. So some key takeaways that I wanted to double tap on. So the first one is, getting into your body is a strategy.
That's what I titled this episode. Whether it's by doing mushrooms, breath work, meditation, or long walks, whatever you need to do to stop suppressing your emotions and feelings so that you can truly connect with what your mind and your body are saying is going to be so advantageous for your personal and professional growth. So get into your body. It's often overlooked and in this hustle culture we live in, but it's something that Jason deeply believes in. Second, I mentioned this at the beginning, is to go hike a mountain in the mountainous terrain of Quebec is where he solidified the idea for drip drop, likely because he was out in Mother Nature, away from all distraction. And I think there's something to be said for just getting out of the four walls of our office, especially if you're feeling stuck or stagnant or you just feel like you're not getting that fresh perspective or those new creative ideas that you're seeking. So if you need more of that in your life, be sure to schedule in a trip to the mountains. And finally, the other thing I wanted to tap on was to become more conscious of your default programming and recognizing which ones are serving you and which ones no longer do.
Over the course of our lives. I think we're almost all blind to the fact that we download other people's programs into our minds, and then we run these programs like they're our own. So think about that. We're downloading other people's programs from the day we are born, and then we run these programs like they're our own, like it's what we want. And Jason talks a lot about removing the programs that aren't fully serving you anymore and then asking yourself, which ones do you want to replace them with? We are in control, right? So asking, who do you want to be? What do you want to stand for? Who do you want to become? And then downloading new programs to do just that. So again, I hope you enjoyed this episode with Jason Brown. And if you do want to connect with him again, it's dripdrop GG. Or you can find him on Twitter or on Clubhouse.
Hejasonbrown thanks for tuning in to this episode of Visionary Life. I love bringing you these conversations on a weekly basis, so it would mean so much to me if you could help me out by rating and reviewing the show in your iTunes app. You can also support the show by taking a quick screenshot of the episode and sharing it on your Instagram stories. Tagging melseyreidle I'll catch you in the next episode. PS whenever you're ready, there's a couple of ways that I can support you. So first thing, if you're ready to make your first or next $50,000 in business, explore how the visionary method business coaching experience can accelerate your growth. There'll be a link in the show notes. Also, if you're feeling lost, confused or overwhelmed when it comes to starting an online business, reach out and book a free revision call with me.
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