351 How To Create a Brand Name that STICKS! (w/ The Namer of Wendy’s Baconator!!)
Alexandra Watkins
Founder of Eat My Words and The Branding Pro
Is being a 'Professional Namer' a real job? You bet it is!
I'm interviewing Alexandra Watkins, the Founder of Eat My Words and The Branding Pro Who Made Wendy’s Baconator A Household Name. Pretty neat, right?
Alexandra Watkins is a leading and outspoken authority on brand names with buzz.
For nearly 20 years, she and her naming firm, Eat My Words, have created love-at-first sight brand names for countless companies including Amazon, Coca-Cola, Disney, Twitter, and Google.
Her breakthrough creativity book, “Hello, My Name is Awesome: How to Create Brand Names That Stick,” was named a Top 10 Marketing Book by Inc. Magazine.
Her personal "Name Hall of Fame" includes Wendy's Baconator, Neato robotic vacuum, Burger King’s Mac n’ Cheetos, Spanish language school Gringo Lingo, and frozen yogurt franchise Spoon Me.
We talk about:
The Importance of Naming
Your brand name shouldn’t look like someone got drunk and played scrabble
Why is naming a brand important
Choosing a name that incorporates surprise, entertaining elements, and dopamine
Whether brand names influence purchases, or not
The painful consequences of bad branding
When to invest in hiring help
Whether your brand name can make or break you
How to even START the brainstorming process of a brand name
Why do we get SO tripped up with naming.
And more!
Episode Time Stamps:
[07:05] Why avoiding scrabble chaos in your brand name is crucial
[13:25] How Alexandra became a professional namer
[22:32] How to create your brand roadmap
[31:17] Should you brand yourself with your personal name
To connect with Alexandra:
To connect with Kelsey:
Access the transcript for this episode:
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You're listening to the Visionary Life Podcast. I'm your host, Kelsey Reidl. Each week, I'll bring you conversations with the most visionary humans on this earth in hopes that you'll be able to absorb their wisdom, avoid their failures, and feel less alone on the roller coaster ride that is entrepreneurship. This season, I'll be chatting with creative thinkers, masterful marketers, brick and mortar shop owners, brand builders, and people just like you who have a story to share or a vision that inspires. If I can share one quick secret with you before we get into the episode, it's that we all have a little bit of visionary inside of us. You know, that spark that nudges us to pursue our full potential in this lifetime. But perhaps somewhere along the line, it got covered up. I'm here to tell you that it's never too late to explore that inner voice and access the brilliance deep down inside of you.
It's in you. It's in all of us. Let's dive in. Hey, visionaries. Welcome back to the show. I have such an epic episode for you. I'm chatting with Alexandra Watkins and she is the founder of Eat My Words. Now, you can probably guess a little bit already what this episode is about.
It's about naming your business, naming your brand, and coming up with a brand that is memorable and that passes the small smile and scratch test. So Alexandra's philosophy in running her business and her agency, Eat My Words, is that a name should make you smile instead of scratching your head. So we go through so many examples of business names where you're just like, what the heck is that? Like, I don't even know what this business sells. And then on the flip side, we go through businesses where you hear their brand name and you're like, yeah, I get it. Something like 1-800-GOT junk, for example, great brand name. So this is such a fun episode because Alexandra brings the fun to branding and naming. And honestly, there are a few reasons why you're going to love this episode, one of which is the story she tells on how she got into naming. Now, I know a lot of you listening.
You want to start a business. You're keen, keen to get into a new industry or land your dream job. And Alexandra tells us how scrappy she had to be to get her dream job, how she basically didn't take no for an answer. And on her third date with a guy, she basically was using him to get to another guy. So it's a really comical story. I think you'll appreciate that she also Shares the mystique of a double O. So if you have two O's in your brand name, are you going to be more successful automatically? Well, you have to listen to find out. And we also go through just some stories around how to rebrand, how to brainstorm a brand name.
So even if you have no idea where to begin, maybe you're naming an online course, maybe you're naming your company, maybe you've kind of run your business according to your first and last name, but you kind of want to remove yourself from it. Well, Alexandra is going to teach us how we can begin this whole process of coming up with a memorable name. So we have so much fun, we're laughing through this. She takes US through the 12 point name evaluation towards the end, so you can actually check to see if your brand name is sticky and if it's something that passes the small smile and scratch test. And I'm going to link a bunch of free resources and Alexandra's website, Eat My Words in the show notes so that you can either go look at her free content, buy her online course or maybe even decide to hire Eat My Words to come up with your new brand name. So big shout out to Brandon Fong for the awesome connection to Alexandra. And without further ado, let's get into today's episode.
Hey, visionary is 2025, the year that you stop going at your business alone, where you stop feeling isolated and like you have nobody to turn to. In times of need, when you have questions or you're looking to scale your business but you're not sure how, or in times of celebration, where you want to look around and say, I just did that. I had a 10k month, a 20k month. I just signed my highest ticket client ever. Whatever the case is, the highs, the lows, we need community when it comes to running our businesses. And honestly, you guys, the biggest gold mine that you are sitting on right now is not getting more social media followers. It's not going to be growing your email list or learning Pinterest or launching a digital course. It's going to be the people who you surround yourself, the people who you can call to celebrate the good times and the bad times and those chosen colleagues who you will share your success secrets with and who you will become best friends friends with on this roller coaster ride that is entrepreneurship.
That's why we've created the Wave Mastermind and we have in real life events here in Ontario, Canada. If you are someone who is looking to connect with a community of female entrepreneurs, you can head to KelseyRidle.com mastermind you can learn all about what we do every single Wednesday when we're together. We have such an epic group. There are about 25 women in the group right now and we are rising to success together. Every single week we talk about a different business topic or we do where you at, where we go round table and see where people are at and how we can hold them accountable. We also have real life events where we meet up. We've done one in Elora, Ontario in Puss Lynch Lake, Ontario. And you can get on the wait list for our next one if you click the link in the description below.
So whether you want to join the Mastermind virtually you want to come out to a real life event, make sure you get in touch. This is the way that you are going to continue to grow beyond your current circumstances. If find yourself stuck or lonely or feeling like you just don't know what to do next, this is your community. I know. For me, Masterminds have been responsible for every single big leap I've had in business and I could not do this without the incredible network of people that I've built over the last decade. So if you want to learn more KelseyRidle.com mastermind and if you want to come out to one of our events, our next one is coming up in just a few months. So DM me on Instagram or send me an email at hello Kelsey rydle.com and we will chat.
Alexandra, welcome to the Visionary Life podcast. You have come as a highly recommended guest by my friend Brandon Fong, by my other friend Blake Fly, and this is the first time that you and I are actually getting a chance to converse. So alongside my audience and our visionary community, I also get to know you. So first off, welcome to the podcast.
Alexandra Watkins00:06:57 - 00:07:05
Thank you so much for having me. Kelsey, when Brandon introduced me to you, I knew you would be a super high quality person.
I love it. Well, I'm so excited to dive in. We're going to chat about all things naming and branding today. And the first question that I want to ask you is something I picked up from the headline of your website. It says your brand name shouldn't look like somebody got drunk and played Scrabble. Can you expand on that? Like, what do you mean by that? Because I find it so cheeky. Because I've actually worked for companies where it's like a mismatch of letters all smushed together and I'm like, nobody knows what we do. But I've never been able to Put words to it like that.
Alexandra Watkins00:07:40 - 00:08:05
Yeah. Well, you know what would happen if you got drunk and played Scrabble? You'd end up with this, like, amalgamation of, like, jumbled. Jumbled words or jumbled letters. And a lot of company names. Look that way. Way. And it started with Flickr leaving out a vowel, and then everybody started leaving out letters and spelling names weird ways. And it's just really.
Alexandra Watkins00:08:05 - 00:08:19
It's really frustrating for people. And of course, it all came down to, you know, getting an available domain name, but there's so many ways around that now. But, yeah, no one wants your name to be frustrating. Every. Your name should be friction free.
I love that term, friction free. And I always think about that in launching a business. Like, if you have 9,000 tabs on your website, there's so much friction, it's like nobody can even figure out what to buy or how to buy from you. But really, when we go back a layer, it starts with the brand name. Like, if they encounter your brand name and they're like, I can't pronounce that. I don't want to verbally say it to Siri or to my friend. Like, that's not a good starting point.
Alexandra Watkins00:08:48 - 00:09:17
Absolutely. Yeah. No, that's. You're so right. If somebody doesn't know how to pronounce something, I mean, think of a time you've been in a restaurant where there's been something on the menu and you don't know how to pronounce it. So either one, you don't order it, or two, you point to it, or three, you, like, pull out a description, some word that you recognize the chicken of the chicken. And. Or for you just.
Alexandra Watkins00:09:17 - 00:09:29
You completely butcher and bumble your way through pronouncing it and embarrass yourself in front of whoever your date or companion is, and then, you know, get an eye roll from the snooty French waiter.
So I have to ask you on that topic, because as I was reading through your book, which is amazing, by the way, I'm going to link it in the show notes for everybody to go grab a copy, especially if they're rebranding or branding. But as I was flipping through, for some reason, Gwyneth Paltrow's brand goop kept coming to mind. I don't know if you're familiar with.
Alexandra Watkins00:09:50 - 00:09:51
It, but, yeah, of course I am. Yeah.
Like, would Alexandra like the name Goop? Because it's kind of like you got drunk and played Scrabble. But then she. When you think about Gwyneth Paltrow, GP is in the name, so it's kind of memorable. I would love to kick off this podcast getting your take on the brand name Goop. Do you like it or do you think it's Drunk Scrabble branding?
Alexandra Watkins00:10:13 - 00:10:27
I don't think it's Drunk Scrabble. And to be honest, I never made that GP connection. And it's funny because it does have the double O. And I don't know if Gwyneth knew. Gwenny knew about that. Gwinnie knew about that.
Friend Gwenny.
Alexandra Watkins00:10:28 - 00:10:57
I think she's called Gwenny from reading the We Work, one of the We Work biographies. She. The double O is this supposedly good luck thing in names. You know, Yahoo and Google both have a double O, so there's this kind of mystique and legend of the double O. Having that in your name increases your chances of being wildly successful. So maybe it's where it came from. I don't know. Goop is, you know, it's a really.
Alexandra Watkins00:10:57 - 00:11:11
It's a really weird name. It still makes me a little uncomfortable sometimes. It's okay. If the name makes you uncomfortable, it means it's not familiar. And like. So, yeah, I, I'm not her. I'm not her. Her clientele.
Alexandra Watkins00:11:11 - 00:11:20
I can't, you know, I'm not going to buy you spend like $500 on some face cream made. Made out of llama placentas. I'm just.
Yeah, okay. So maybe we're not the ones to consult. Yeah, is the right name.
Alexandra Watkins00:11:27 - 00:11:30
But still in business. Still in business.
So it must be doing okay. And I will say it is memorable, which I know is one of your check boxes for a good brand name. And we'll get there and we'll circle back on that. But I would love. How did you get into the industry of naming? I know you have had tons of success over the years naming things like the Wendy's Baconator. You've worked for a lot of other really big companies, but I'm assuming you didn't start your career naming and working with brands. So could you kind of give us a quick overview of how this all started?
Alexandra Watkins00:12:04 - 00:12:36
Sure. I fell into it. I was an advertising copywriter for a very long time. I had no idea that naming was a profession because naming is under. Falls under branding. And I was on the other end in advertising. So when I discovered that naming was a profession and I could have that as my career, I switched gears from being an advertising copywriter and decided I would be a professional namer. And people told me, you can't just Make a living naming things.
Alexandra Watkins00:12:36 - 00:12:56
And I love a challenge and clearly I have and, you know, wrote a best selling book, so. Yeah, but it was. I was able to use everything I learned in advertising about making emotional connections through powerful words and take that and translate it into naming.
Very cool. And so when you first kind of found that passion for naming, did you start a business right away? Did you start doing this for free and just kind of like brainstorming with people? Like, when you think back to the early days of deciding this is what I want to do as my career path, and people are probably thinking, you're crazy. Alexandra, how did you actually turn this into a business where you could make money?
Alexandra Watkins00:13:25 - 00:14:13
Well, first of all, I started telling everyone I was a neighbor. I just wanted to own it. So under my signature line I put, you know, professional namer. And that's bold to do that. But I said, okay, I'm going to do it. Then I just, I was still doing some copywriting, so I was able to get. So it's already kind of in the general vicinity of people that might need my services, but I didn't know anyone in branding, so I went on LinkedIn and I just, I started seeking out people that had worked for big naming firms, branding firms, and I looked for people that were currently unemployed because I thought, oh, they'll have all the time in the world to meet with me. So that was my strategy and that worked.
Alexandra Watkins00:14:13 - 00:14:51
And so I got to know people and then I started reaching out to different naming firms, branding firms, and freelancing. And look, it wasn't easy because I hadn't named a lot of things. I'd gotten some freelance work naming beauty products for the Gap. I had named a startup. And so I was lucky that I had something. But yeah, in the beginning, I was doing stuff for free, doing stuff for next to nothing, and I was just trying to build a portfolio. And eventually I started getting some bigger clients and people started hearing about me. But yeah, working that LinkedIn network was super helpful.
Alexandra Watkins00:14:52 - 00:15:18
But. And I remember one time one of the people who told me that, you know, you can't just be name things. And I hadn't seen her in a long time. She was the former boss. And I ran into her and I told her, I said, oh, I'm just naming things now. And she's like, what do you mean? And I'm like, yeah, it pays really well. I just got paid $55,000 to name something. And she said, you can't charge $55,000 for a name.
Alexandra Watkins00:15:18 - 00:15:21
And I said, But I did.
I love it. So cool. And I think what's really relatable out of that story is that initially you just had to claim it and change your email signature and look at little bits of real estate in the online world and say, where. Can I just say that I am a professional namer? Because if you don't tell people, they don't know what you're up to. Right. They might still think you're in advertising or in copywriting. You had to declare it. Right.
Alexandra Watkins00:15:49 - 00:16:12
Yeah. And that really helped. And then also, I. I was pretty relentless about getting my foot in the door at Landor, which is a. A huge global branding firm. And at the time, I was living in San Francisco, and they were right in my own backyard, and I tried everything I could to get my foot in the door there. But this is before LinkedIn. I'm all.
Alexandra Watkins00:16:12 - 00:16:37
I'm old. This before LinkedIn. So I didn't really know who worked there. I got the name of one guy, and so I would send him, you know, a picture of my dog, and here's all the names I came up with for my dog. And, like, I never heard anything. And so, you know, every once in a while, I'd still try. And then I. As luck would have it, I was on a match.com date with this guy named Samir, and he took me to a party where he.
Alexandra Watkins00:16:37 - 00:17:04
I knew that his friend Anthony. I discovered his friend Anthony, who worked at Landor and just happened to be the head of naming. All of this I discovered right before we went to this cocktail party. And I knew that he was going to be there. And I. You know, I went to grab my cards that I always had kept by the door, and Samir said, what are you doing? And I'm like, I'm getting my cards. I want to meet your friend Anthony. And he said, no, you're not.
Alexandra Watkins00:17:06 - 00:17:25
Oh, my God. Are you serious? And I'm like, samir, what is your deal? It was only my third date with Samir. I knew he wasn't my. He was Mr. Right now, not Mr. Right. So I'm like, what have I got to lose here? And I said, look, I want to meet your friend Anthony. I've always wanted to work at Landor.
Alexandra Watkins00:17:25 - 00:17:56
And he's like, alexandra, every time people meet my friend Anthony, they find out he's a neighbor. They say, oh, I'm really good at naming things. And I said, but I am really good at naming things. And he kind of rolled his eyes, and he's like, look, it's Saturday night, it's a cocktail party, not a networking party. Please leave your cards at home. So I completely disobeyed him and shoved a bunch of cards on my tiny little purse. And off we went. And we got to this party, and it was at a bar, a crowded bar.
Alexandra Watkins00:17:56 - 00:18:43
And I'm painfully shy if I don't know people in a social situation like that. Now, I love to have parties because I don't have to be shy, because they usually know the people or they want to come up and meet me. But here I was. I was very shy. So what did I do? Because Samir would not point him out to me, I eavesdropped on every conversation for about an hour until I finally heard a guy in a top hat introduce himself to someone as Anthony. So I kind of moseyed on in to the conversation. And as painful as this was, I introduced myself. And Anthony looked me straight in the eye and said, alexandra, what do you do? And I totally lied.
Alexandra Watkins00:18:44 - 00:19:19
I said, I'm a product namer. He's like, no, I'm a neighbor. Why haven't I ever heard of you? It's a very small community. And I said, I don't know. I came out of advertising. And he said, well, what have you named? Well, luckily, on the way over in the car, I was like, what have I named? What have I named? I'm like, you know, going through all of them. And I had named beauty products, a startup. So I reeled them all off, and then Anthony looked at me and said, do you have a card on you? Now, this whole time, Kelsey, Samir had been watching me from the bar.
Alexandra Watkins00:19:19 - 00:19:57
So while I, you know, turned a little bit, you know, like a quarter turn to look into my tiny little purse to pretend to see if I had a card, which, of course, I did. I looked over at Samir with the biggest F you on my face. Oh, my God, that felt so good. And then I gave Anthony my car. Okay, so fast forward a couple of weeks. Anthony's assistant calls and gives me a project as a freelancer naming chips for Frito La. Like, I was so in. And then I started getting a lot of work from Landor, from the San Francisco office, New York, Frankfurt.
Alexandra Watkins00:19:57 - 00:20:28
So Landor sent me enough work to open my own naming firm. Now, Samir, all these years later, still takes credit for launching my naming group. And Anthony and I are friends, and Anthony knows the story. And, yeah, we've remained friends and colleagues, and. But, yeah, that was. That was something really daring that I had to do because it was like, now or never. You know, I knew that was going to be my big break. And normally I wouldn't.
Alexandra Watkins00:20:28 - 00:20:32
I wouldn't lie like that, but I. I just had to.
Oh, my goodness, that is such an epic story. And I'm, like, trying to think in my head, like, what are the lessons that we can extract from the story that Alexandra just told? And like, number one, I think it's be scrappy. When you're in the early stages of your career, don't take no for an answer. When you say, I want to bring business cards to this event and someone says, it's not a networking event. Just be like, whatever. Gotta look out for myself. Be scrappy. Be on the lookout for the person with the name that you want to meet.
So that's kind of the first thing. And I'd say second, like, be ready with examples of how awesome you are, because you knew how awesome you are. But sometimes when we're at a party and people say, so what do you do? We kind of get choked up, and it's like, I just like. And we word vomit on people. But if you can say, well, I've actually named this, and here's an example. And I've named this. Right. Don't be afraid to showcase your brilliance, your awesomeness, because people don't know at that point.
So I love that you came prepared with examples in that situation.
Alexandra Watkins00:21:39 - 00:21:46
Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, sometimes you have to toot your own horn because no one else is going to do it for you.
Yeah. You got to be your own hype person, especially in the early days before you have all the accolades and the books and all that. So I think that's something that you did really, really well in that situation.
Alexandra Watkins00:21:57 - 00:21:58
Thank you.
So let's kind of get into some practical tips around naming, and a lot of this is outlined in your book, which is called hello, My name is awesome. But I'd love to kind of dig into. First off, how can we start the brainstorming process for a new brand name? Like, if somebody is just getting started and they're like, I don't even know where to begin, but I want to create this awesome company name. What would be some of those initial steps that you would guide them to take?
Alexandra Watkins00:22:32 - 00:23:14
The very first thing you want to do is before you even start thinking of names, you need to create a roadmap. And that's what I call a creative brief. And not it's in my book. I also have an online course where you get the brief and it's going to ask you questions about your brand, you know you're going to say what it is in a nutshell. Describe your target audience. What are some desired brand experiences that you want them to feel when they come in contact with with your name? For instance, the name of my business is Eat my words. And it's playful, fun, creative, unexpected. And those are all experiences I want people to feel about our brand.
Alexandra Watkins00:23:14 - 00:24:05
You will write down styles of names that you like, Write down styles of names that you don't like. What's the and yeah, what is the personality of your name? And then what are words that you might want in your name? And what are words that you definitely don't want in your name? And those can be competitors. Maybe it's, you're naming a new snack food for kids, and you know that anything that suggests that it's healthy, kids aren't going to want to eat it because it doesn't sound like it's going to taste good. So that's something to write down. So, so figure out your roadmap. Write down an acid test sentence. How will your new name be used? Then when you're coming up with names, you'll have something to check against. Does it fit? Does it work with acid test sentence.
Alexandra Watkins00:24:05 - 00:24:55
Is it, Is it on brand with the personality that I wrote down that I want the name to express about us. And then after you have your creative brief build out, the next step is to come up with some starter words to explore. These aren't words that you're going to have in your name. They're words that might take you to an idea for a name. So for instance, if I was naming eat my words and okay, we specialize. We started out specializing in things that make people fat and drunk. So I might write down the word food, right? And then where's food going to take me? Oh, to the word eat. Right? So, so if you jot down words from your brief and when you read my book, take my course, you'll see how I do this.
Alexandra Watkins00:24:55 - 00:25:19
Pulling out words. One was we in the book, we name a frozen yogurt franchise. And I show you all the examples of how we did this. And one of the words was cold. So I go to a thesaurus and I look up the word cold. And that makes me, I see frigid. That could be a really fun name. I, I see Siberia.
Alexandra Watkins00:25:19 - 00:25:57
That could be a really fun name. Then look at Google images, right? A picture says a thousand words. Those will often lead to name ideas. I'm a, I'm really big on skimming Words and looking for ideas just by skimming and looking for something to pop out at me. So, example, I was naming a new men's athleisure brand, which is, you know, forgot. It's like women that wear, wear, you know, yoga clothes as everyday wear. That's what athleisure is for men. And the.
Alexandra Watkins00:25:57 - 00:26:29
My client was really into MMA fighting, and I didn't know anything about that. So I googled top 25 movie fight scenes and top 25 movie chase scenes, because I thought that's the right tone, you know, those kind of movies. And so I just started skimming all of that because people write, look, there's some. There's. The Internet is the best brainstorming tool. There's volumes of information on there where you can dig. It's like, go on a treasure hunt. You're digging for ideas.
Alexandra Watkins00:26:30 - 00:26:54
So I'm skimming, skimming, skimming, and I see the phrase stunt double, and I'm like, that is the perfect name. Stunt double. Right? Because here's these guys sitting on the sofa, vicariously living through these, like, badass actors and stunt doubles. That's the perfect name. So that became the name. So skim, because it's not always going to be obvious.
I love that tip. So in, like, a very practical sense, is this just like, open up a Google Doc, show up with a fresh brain, and just start skimming the Internet, using the thesaurus, getting into conversation, and literally just starting with throwing everything on a paper as step one?
Alexandra Watkins00:27:13 - 00:27:53
Yes. And when you're looking at photos, for instance, talk out loud, because sometimes the words that come out of your mouth are going to be different than what you're thinking in your head or when you say it, it might. The idea might come to you. So when I was looking at cold, I first I googled cold, and I got people blowing their nose. So I did cold weather, and I saw a bunch of thermometers that were all like, below zero. And so I started saying I was seeing it, but I wasn't really saying it, articulating it. So it was like, below zero. And then when I said it, it triggered something that the client had mentioned.
Alexandra Watkins00:27:53 - 00:28:07
That frozen yogurt was a skinny treat. And that was part of the brief. And I looked it up, and each. Each ounce was below 30 calories. So I did below 30. 30 below was one of the names I came up with.
Oh, that's so clever. Yeah. And I love how that immediately kind of gives you an image of what it is and what the benefits are, but it doesn't necessarily like say in exact words, this is frozen yogurt. So that's super fascinating.
Alexandra Watkins00:28:22 - 00:28:49
And another, another, a really good resource for coming up with names. It's a rhyming dictionary. So there's a website called Rhyme Zone. It has far more than rhymes on it. It has related words, synonyms, all kinds of stuff. But on with this. The frozen yogurt client, they, they were originally going to call it Zen Yo. And I'm like, horrible.
Alexandra Watkins00:28:49 - 00:29:09
Like, you know, get it, Zen yogurt. I'm like. But I thought, well, I'll just explore the word zen. I mean, the word yo. I did, I did, I did. I think I did Zen too, but something more clever. But with yo, I looked up rhyming words with yo and I came up with Joe yo, which I thought was really fun. Like Joe Blow.
Alexandra Watkins00:29:10 - 00:29:51
And in a big thing with this client is they really wanted a name that they could monetize with merchandise and that the teenagers they were targeting, their flagship was going to be in Salt Lake City. So they, you know, they wanted to be self deprecating to, you know, the fact that Utah is, can be a little frigid. And so Jojo, I thought would make a fun T shirt. Just like Siberia, you know, hey, mom, I'm going to Siberia. Back, back later. And another one I came up with was Chateau Yo. And that's something you probably. If I just said, hey, Kelsey, let's come up with rhymes for Yo.
Alexandra Watkins00:29:51 - 00:30:14
If we were sitting around a room in a. You know, white people brainstorm the wrong way. They sit in a white conference room expecting col. Colorful ideas to materialize. And that's not where ideas come from. Our, our brains are really small compared to what's on the Internet. So yeah, Chateau yo came out of that. And years later, I was naming a Blow Dry bar.
Alexandra Watkins00:30:14 - 00:30:41
And Chateau Blow was my favorite name. And the client had wanted a name that was whimsical. Whimsical, yet sophisticated. Yet sophisticated. And I thought Chateau Blo was that kind of name. The client, the, the, the merchants association didn't like it. They were like in a family neighborhood in Oakland. So we ended up naming it Bounce, which worked really well because you bounce in, bounce out, get some bounce in your hair.
Alexandra Watkins00:30:42 - 00:30:51
But yeah, so rhyming dictionary is a good one. And the. By the way, we named the frozen yogurt franchise Spoon Me, Spoon Me.
Yes. Yeah, I love that. So clever. So, you know, for somebody who's listening, we have a lot of listeners who start personal brands. And so whether they're starting A freelance agency, and they're kind of the face of it. Or they're a nutritionist. Oftentimes they go to use their first and last name. But one thing that I often hear is, well, I don't know if people know how to say my last name or.
Well, I have a really obscure spelling, and I don't want to have people confuse what the domain name is. So I'm curious to hear your take. And I know you share some awesome stories in the book of experiences where you've helped people to brand away from their personal first and last name. But what are your thoughts on using your first and last name in your brand name? Are you for it? Are you against it? And any tips on how to decide?
Alexandra Watkins00:31:42 - 00:32:05
Well, I'm like, I don't think that you should because you will have a hard time selling your business. And also your person. Your personal name doesn't say anything about you. Now, look, have I made this mistake? Yes. I named my partner's business handyman, business call Glenn. Again, his name is Glenn. And now there's 16 employees. So they're all Glenn.
Alexandra Watkins00:32:05 - 00:32:13
Yes. And they all name Glenn. No. And Glenda. His woman is named Glenda. No, it's okay. People know. He's still the face of it.
Alexandra Watkins00:32:13 - 00:32:19
People know him. But, yeah, if. Yeah, I thought, you know, it's kind of too late now. Yeah.
No turning back on it.
Alexandra Watkins00:32:21 - 00:32:21
Yeah.
Good lesson to learn, right?
Alexandra Watkins00:32:23 - 00:32:39
Yeah. Yeah. Who knew? But the. The examples that I. I. Let me give you an example of what you can do using your name versus not using your name. So we worked with a publicist named Lynette Hoy. Lynette Hoy.
Alexandra Watkins00:32:39 - 00:32:59
Her name says nothing about her being a fiery publicist and being relentless with the press. So we rebranded her Fire Talker PR with the tagline hot on the press. So her name has a theme to it. Fire. That's what we. A theme. We call that legs in. In a name that means you can extend your brand.
Alexandra Watkins00:32:59 - 00:33:13
She calls herself the fire chief. She works in the firehouse. That could be, you know, the firehouse could be her kitchen. Right. So anyone can do this. Fire. Fire, chief, Firehouse. She has packages like.
Alexandra Watkins00:33:13 - 00:33:36
And I know all of you. You create packages for your business. Hers are, you know, controlled burn, fire starter. When she does a webinar, it's called ignite your visibility. And she has a theme song, and I think that's the most fun. So hers is Fire by the Ohio Players. My theme song and Eat my words is Sugar, Sugar by the Archies. Before I do A webinar.
Alexandra Watkins00:33:36 - 00:34:05
Sometimes I'll. I'll have the host put on my theme song so you can have a lot of fun. And let's say you're doing an in person webinar and not webinar. Like a speaking engagement. And like, you crank up your theme song. Like, all of a sudden the audience is gonna get. Get, you know, energized and bouncy, and it's not gonna be this false, like, forced, you know, okay, everyone stand up on your feet. Turn to your neighbor.
Alexandra Watkins00:34:05 - 00:34:21
Like, that just makes me cringe. Yeah, but if you're blasting fire by the Ohio Players, like, people are up on their feet, dancing around, you know, everybody's in a good mood to start. Sets the tone. So a theme song can set the tone.
Yeah, I was just gonna say the same thing. Like, the work that you do with your clients, it literally sets the tone for everything down the road. And, like, you use the example, it gives it legs. It means you name your brand something that feels really exciting, and then you can create packages that reflect that. You could work with a logo designer to reflect that. You could choose theme music and create an entire content series that is, you know, like you said with your client, Lynette, like, the ignite your fire, whatever it is. And it just, it almost like allows for even more creativity, but within a constraint, which is often nice because it's like, okay, I want to stick with the theme and I really want to be known for something rather than just like having branding that is all over the place and confusing. Because there's nothing worse than people interacting with your brand at multiple touch points and going, I don't see the continuity here, you know?
Alexandra Watkins00:35:23 - 00:35:44
Yes, exactly. And you can go beyond the words. So, for instance, at Eat my words, we, you know, well, our blog is called the Kitchen Sink. We have packages like snack and supermarket special. I just created a new. A new one called Fun size. Our icon is a pink refrigerant. We have the pink fridge.
Alexandra Watkins00:35:44 - 00:36:09
If anybody's watching this on video, you can see the pink fridge in our office. That's where we keep our cool books. It's a 1950s retro pink fridge. And yeah, you open it up, it's full of cool books. And then my business card is the little pink fridge. It opens up. And when we send out packages to people, everything we do has donuts on it. We have our notepads say food for thought.
Alexandra Watkins00:36:09 - 00:36:31
So we have, we have. We send out pens that look like Twizzlers. So clever. Just have a lot of fun. So yeah. So like, if Lynette was doing a package, you know, she could have, you know, matches in there or, you know, I don't. Any Sterno? No. Something.
Alexandra Watkins00:36:31 - 00:36:41
Something related to fire. But yeah, I really encourage people to have fun with your name and yeah, if it lends itself to little tchotchkes, that's great.
Absolutely. And I love that you're bringing so much fun to this process because a lot of people when they start their business, naming is such a burden and they feel tripped up by it and it's like, oh, whatever. Just like come up with something. Make sure the domain's available. What you're doing is you're kind of like shining a light on this process saying, enjoy it, go to a creative place. Don't sit in your white walled office. Because entrepreneurship by nature is a creative journey for a lot of us. And when we get bogged down in the to do list of like, find a brand name and you're just sitting there and you're like, okay, I'll just choose something.
The domain's available. Great. You're kind of missing the magic that's going to set you apart in comparison to everybody else who does what you do. So this is such a, a fun light to shine on branding and naming that it can be fun, it can be enjoyable and we don't have to dread it.
Alexandra Watkins00:37:38 - 00:37:42
Oh my gosh, it's super fun. I live to do this.
I love it.
Alexandra Watkins00:37:43 - 00:37:56
I. It's so much. Right now I'm, I'm doing, I'm doing a, like a 800 number. It doesn't have to be 800. It could be 877 for a school. And it's just really, really fun. It's something different. But yeah, every day is different.
Yeah. I always think of the entrepreneur Brian Scudamore from 1-800-got- junk like that is. I don't know if you're familiar with that business, of course, junk trucks all around or the dump trucks or junk trucks. But you remember it, right? Because, yeah, that name, it's almost a bit obscure. But you see it, you remember it, you know who to call, you know exactly what they do. So it's very clever. And just in that name, you kind of like download. I know exactly what business I should call when I need junk removal.
So it does leave a lasting impact on the growth of your company.
Alexandra Watkins00:38:33 - 00:38:39
Yeah. And another one like that that's very long, but it's super memorable is we buy ugly houses. Dot com.
Yes. Yeah.
Alexandra Watkins00:38:41 - 00:38:49
And yeah, it's long. And I always tell People, it's better to have a long name that's memorable than a short name that. That's forgettable.
Oh, fascinating. I love that. I've often learned in naming that the G sound with a G or like an X. So like Spanx or Coca Cola or Goop or Kellogg's. Is there any merit to that or is that just like an old textbook that I read as a university marketing student?
Alexandra Watkins00:39:10 - 00:39:28
I don't, you know, I don't, I'm not a linguist, so I don't think of names that way. I'm sure the X. I'm sure that's true about the X. It I, we, the names that we do are based on concepts, not on, on sounds. Do you? If that makes any sense.
Makes so much sense. Yeah. To not get tripped up in the sounds and instead like root it in who your business is and the core values and the essence. So yeah.
Alexandra Watkins00:39:36 - 00:39:41
And so many names now we're just, you know, we're on social media, we're re, we're reading.
Fascinating. So as we kind of round out here, I know you have something called the Smile and Scratch Test. And I feel like we cannot end this interview without you sharing what that means. And we'll refer people to the book to actually run their name through the Smile and Scratch test. But could you just quickly explain what does that mean and why should we use it in checking out our brand name, whether it is going to be effective or not?
Alexandra Watkins00:40:10 - 00:40:47
Sure. So the Smiling Scratch Test is a 12 point name evaluation test and it's based on my philosophy that a name should make you smile instead of scratch your head. Smile is an acronym for the five qualities that make a name awesome. Scratch is the acronym for the seven deadly deal breakers. And if it has any of those, you want to scratch it off the list so I can quickly run through those. So in Smile the S stands for suggestive. You want your name to suggest a positive brand experience. The M stands for memorable.
Alexandra Watkins00:40:47 - 00:41:11
Your name should be memorable. And what makes something memorable is if it already exists in our current knowledge base. So that can be. It doesn't. It can be a brand new word. But I'll give you an example of a brand new word. But it already exists in our knowledge base. This is, was a beer growler bar in Tennessee and I named it Chuggernaut.
Alexandra Watkins00:41:11 - 00:41:45
So we know chug because people chug beers and we know juggernaut. So chuggernaut like that then it exists in our knowledge base and we know how to spell it. And to me that is the, the Kind of the trifecta of a good name is if a good coin name is if it sounds like a real word, you know how to spell it, and it's intuitive to pronounce. Yeah. So that's memorable. And then the I. And smile stands for imagery. It.
Alexandra Watkins00:41:45 - 00:42:25
People remember pictures, and they can recall them much more easily than words or letters. So when people hear or see your name, if they can picture something in their head, they're going to be able to remember it later when they're trying to recall it from their brain's dusty filing cabinet. So, for instance, the bike lock company Kryptonite. We all know kryptonite from Superman. You can picture a bike thief being repelled by a kryptonite lock. Just how kryptonite repels Superman. So that's a great visual technique. Metaphorical names are often very visual.
Alexandra Watkins00:42:25 - 00:42:51
The L in smile stands for legs, which we already talked about. Your name lends itself to a theme. And the Ian Smile stands for emotional. You want your name to make a strong emotional connection. Otherwise it's going to go right over the heads of the people that you want to be your customers. And that's why I think it's so important to make people smile with your name. And smile doesn't mean that they laugh. It doesn't even have to be a fun name.
Alexandra Watkins00:42:51 - 00:43:07
It just means that they get it when they see it. They're like, oh, people want to feel clued in, not clueless. Right. So if I tell you we name a G, we named a GPS for dogs. Retriever. Yeah. Like, Kelsey, I can see you smiling. Like you get it.
Alexandra Watkins00:43:07 - 00:43:21
Like, oh, people. And let's not feel good. Like, oh, I get it. Right. Like, that is a great feeling. Right. Not like, I don't know even how to pronounce that or what it means. Like, that's not a good feeling.
Alexandra Watkins00:43:21 - 00:43:42
Right. We all want to be in on it. Then scratch. The flip side of smile is the S stands for spelling challenge. If your name looks like a typo, scratch it off the list. We talked about a lot of those. The first C in scratch stands for copycat. Nobody likes a copycat.
Alexandra Watkins00:43:42 - 00:43:59
We learned that as little kids. Right. Copycat. Copycat. Right. I know where that's from some, but something haunting me from my childhood. Yeah, but look, why be somebody else when you can be yourself? I. A lot of your listeners are starting businesses or they're just into the first couple years.
Alexandra Watkins00:44:00 - 00:44:39
Like, it's. It's. It's tempting to, like, want to copy somebody's success but, like, I know, like, everybody's creative. Everyone can put their own spin on things and have their own ideas. So. And also, when you are a copycat, you can open yourself up to trademark infringement, and that's not a good feeling, getting a cease and desist letter in the mail. So the R in scratch stands for restrictive, and that is where you outgrow your name. So, example, Hotel Tonight is an app where when they first launch, you could reserve a hotel room that night.
Alexandra Watkins00:44:39 - 00:45:18
So why would you do that? Maybe you're at a bar, you meet someone, let's go get a room. Maybe you're traveling, you're flight, you know, suddenly you miss your flight, you need a room. That night, you need to get a room. So hotel Tonight, great idea. You know, having hotels sell their unsold inventory at a discount and passing it on to the consumer. The problem is, is they then expanded so that you could get a hotel 365 days in advance, and suddenly they outgrew their name. Hotel Tonight didn't fit anymore. They kept the name.
Alexandra Watkins00:45:18 - 00:45:36
I think they should have called it get a room because it would have worked. It's a way more fun name. It makes people smile, and it would have served the original. You know, it has kind of a wink, wink factor to it, but also it's exactly what people want to do. They want to get a room.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Alexandra Watkins00:45:39 - 00:45:57
So that is the ring and then the A in scratch stands for annoying. And annoying names frustrate people, whether they're, you know, they're. They have a number in them. That's a big annoyance. So. And not a. Not a. Not like 21st amendment.
Alexandra Watkins00:45:57 - 00:46:17
That's not annoying because that's actually a thing. But if your name was coast to coast and you had a two numeral two, you would forever have to tell people that's coast numeral to coast. Anytime you're having to explain your name to people, you're essentially apologizing for it, and that devalues your brand.
Not good.
Alexandra Watkins00:46:18 - 00:46:28
So try to stay away from those numbers. Or spelling something backwards. Like, that never works. Unless you're Oprah and your name backwards is Harpo, which is a real word.
That one worked okay, right?
Alexandra Watkins00:46:30 - 00:46:42
Yeah. Serena Williams had a clothing line where she spelled Serena backwards. And, like, it just. It wasn't an attractive word. Yeah. And people don't look at a word and automatically know it's spelled backwards.
No, no. It's not how our brains work. We don't read.
Alexandra Watkins00:46:45 - 00:47:09
No, no. And then the T and scratch stands for tame. You do not want a tame name. When you are starting out, you need every advantage you can get. Your name can really help there, can help you stand out in a sea of sameness. Be bold. You can afford to be bold. Look, you know, big brands, they can go into a store and get shelf space just because they're already there.
Alexandra Watkins00:47:09 - 00:47:44
They have established relationships. If you're new and people don't know you, you need something distinctive that's going to elevate you and make people take notice. So have your name be that thing, and then the second C. And scratch stands for curse of knowledge. That is where maybe you know, maybe the engineers know. Maybe it's like a family inside joke. You know what it means, but your pros, your prospective customers don't know, and you're not going to be there to explain it to them. So try to stay away from that.
So, like, avoiding industry jargon, is that kind of what you're saying? Totally.
Alexandra Watkins00:47:47 - 00:48:13
Avoid industry. Avoid industry jargon. Industry jargon. You can look to industry jargon for inspiration. And I'll give you an example. When we were naming Spoon Me, I looked up snowboarding lingo, and one of the lingo words was chatter. And chatter means that you're riding your snowboard on the. On the edge.
Alexandra Watkins00:48:13 - 00:48:35
It's kind of shaky, but chatter also means your teeth are chattering. Teenagers are chattering with each other. Spoomy had a really social aspect to it. So then the name worked, and it wasn't such a. It wasn't, you know, a jargon word that no one else would recognize as a word. It actually had some great meanings to it. So that was on my list. But.
Alexandra Watkins00:48:35 - 00:48:45
Yeah, but. But like real insider jargon. And also anything foreign, if it's. If it's a foreign word, it's going to be foreign to your. To your customers.
Yep.
Alexandra Watkins00:48:46 - 00:49:02
And then the. Finally, the H in scratch stands for hard to pronounce. You only want your name to be pronounced one way. So make sure that. That it is pronounced one way and that it's easy and intuitive to pronounce. Yeah.
Because there's nothing worse than when, like, say you're going to a restaurant and one person calls it one thing, you call it something else, because nobody knows how to pronounce it. And you're like, who's right here? Do I change the way I pronounce it to sound like my friend? Because we're saying two different things, but we don't know which the right way is. So.
Alexandra Watkins00:49:23 - 00:49:46
Yes, Same, same, same. Yeah. So that's smiling scratch and yeah, you can get that in my book. You can also on our website, eatmywords.com you can test a name right on our site. It's on the homepage. It will walk you through all 12 letters in the smiling scratch test and then you just submit your response and, and you'll get, you'll get your results sent to you.
Amazing. Well, I'd highly encourage everyone to test out their name for free on your site. You also have a mini masterclass. You have an online course. I know people can actually hire you and work with you if they want that one on one support. Where can they connect with you? Where's the best place to go to access all of these resources and to just stay connected with the content you share? Leave us with all the links.
Alexandra Watkins00:50:11 - 00:50:39
Go to. Go to eat my words.com it's a really fun website to poke around if you want a lot of inspiration. Look at the before and afters in our portfolio. If you're thinking that, oh, I launched my name, but now that I know what the smiling scratches is. Or, or you. If, look, if you launched your name and you know it has problems, you know it has problems and if you're pretty brand new, it's not too late to change your name. We just renamed a bank that's more than 100 years old.
Wow.
Alexandra Watkins00:50:40 - 00:50:56
Yeah, so it's, yeah, it was called First national bank of Syracuse and it was in Syracuse, Kansas. And it, they, they were a maverick bank with a kind of a boring name. So we rebranded them Dream first because it was all about being aspirational.
Cool.
Alexandra Watkins00:50:57 - 00:51:06
So, yeah, never too late. Nope. And yeah. And then follow me on LinkedIn. I'm @Alexandra Watkins.
Amazing. We'll put all of that in the show notes. Alexandra, thank you so much for sharing your excitement and enthusiasm around naming. This is not a topic we've covered in over 350 episodes. So I think this one is going to be a hit. And we really appreciate your time today. So thank you.
Alexandra Watkins00:51:23 - 00:51:26
Awesome. Thank you, Kelsey. Thank you everyone.
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Visionary Life. I love bringing you these conversations on a weekly basis. So it would mean so much to me if you could help me out by rating and reviewing the show on either itunes or Spotify. It just takes a second. And if you don't want to rate the show, you could also just take a screenshot of the episode and share it on your social media platform of choice. Tagging me at Kelsey Rydle. I'll catch you in the next episode. Hey, Visionary.
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Alexandra Watkins00:53:45 - 00:53:45
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