219 Behind The Scenes of Launching My Business (My Origin Story)

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May 30

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In this episode, I am getting personal and vulnerable and sharing the Origin Story of the Visionary, Inc brand!

Tune into the episode…

Today’s episode features for the 2nd time someone who can geek out on Marketing for as long as me, Michael Roderick.

You may remember Michael from Episode # 134 -- you know the guy who made the pivot from High School English Teacher to Broadway Producer in under 2 years?

Ya, that guy! He’s back but this time instead of HIM in the Hot Seat, it’s me.

This interview was originally aired on The Access to Anyone Podcast that Michael Hosts, but today I’m thrilled to share it here on this platform.

In this episode, I am getting personal and vulnerable and sharing the Origin Story of the Visionary, Inc brand!

I am being interviewed by my friend Michael Roderick in this episode, and we chat about...

My Origin Story (how I got to where I am today)
Why I ended up devoting my work to Social Media, Online Business and Marketing
Why I decided to stray away from the “Normal Path” of a Nutritionist when I graduated from The Canadian School or Natural Nutrition aka CSNN
Launching my first “Group Program” and how it went
The corporate roles that I worked for over 5 years, which opened my eyes to the world of Experiential Marketing
& more!

To tune into the Access to Anyone Podcast click here:

https://www.accesstoanyonepodcast.com/

To learn more about Visionary, Inc and the work that I do, click here:

https://www.kelseyreidl.com/tvm

You're listening to the visionary life podcast. I'm your host, Kelsey Reidl. We're hanging out here today because one day, while hiking in Peru, after just having been let go from my dream job, it hit me. There's so much more to life and there's no excuse for not embracing uncertainty and trying new things to really explore our full potential in this lifetime.
On this weekly podcast, you'll hear from successful entrepreneurs, creative thinkers, and visionaries, just like you, so that you feel less alone as you pursue everything you want and deserve in this lifetime. This is a space where big sky thinking is welcomed and conversations about daily. Betterment are essential.
So if you're ready to stop living an ordinary life and start living a visionary. Then welcome homes. Good morning. Well morning, it could be any time when you're listening to this. It's just morning when I'm recording it. Um, we're back with another episode and this time I am on the other side of the microphone.
So I'm actually sharing an episode that I recorded for a podcast called access to anyone. And this podcast is super cool because I was totally fan girling. This awesome individual named Michael Roderick. I met him a few years ago at an online event and I was just fascinated by his work on the concept of referrability.
How do you become a referrable brand and just really loved his approach to marketing and relationship building and online. And so I followed Michael for a while. And then as I was planning out season seven of the podcast, I was like, okay, I really want to get Michael on the show. And I was totally scared to send off this email, which in retrospect I'm like, why was I scared?
But you know, when you are connecting with people who may be. Our way further along the path than you. Right? So you see that they've built the business that you desire. They have done all this great work in their subject matter expertise. And they're out there speaking on stages, they're, you know, running the masterminds.
And so I was terrified. I'm like, why would he ever want. Come on the visionary life podcast. And to my shock, he was like, yeah, I would love to be on the show. And so that was a huge milestone. Like just having the courage to reach out or to do something that I was scared to do. I mean, this is something we face every day in growing our businesses.
This is something we talk about a lot inside the visionary method. But these moments just keep coming up when you're like, feel the fear, do it anyways. I know that's so cliche, but it's kind of true, right? You have to step outside your comfort zone. And whether it's asking someone to be on a podcast or whether it's putting yourself out there on social media in a different way.
Or whether it is seeking investment into your company, from people who could support you in growth, like whatever, the challenges that you're currently facing, you're going to have to stretch yourself. It's not going to feel good. As small as this was reaching out to Michael, it was a big deal for me. And then, you know, recording the podcast was another nerve wracking moment.
Cause I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't want to F up this interview, I'll keep this PG. Um, and then at the end of the show, he was a. Do you want to come on my podcast, access to anyone. And then all the feelings of imposter syndrome just flooded me. I'm like, I don't have anything to say. Like, I can't be on your show.
What are you talking about? But how cool that just by me having a platform, inviting him on my show. He then reciprocated and invited me on his show. And even though I had so many feelings of who am I to be on his podcast, I was like, no, he wouldn't have asked me if he didn't think that I could do this.
And this is the path that I need to take. This is an opportunity I need to say yes to. So I did, and it was such a fun interview. I got to share my story. Um, and share with all of you a little bit more about my take on marketing. So, um, that's the episode that I'm sharing. So you'll hear Michael's intro and his podcast music, and that's because this originally aired on his show, but anyways, another full, full circle moment.
I talk so much about the power of community and rooting yourself in. Opportunities and putting yourself in the rooms with people who are going to help you grow. And I'm a big believer in investing money in this. So not just sitting behind your computer screen, trying to build your business alone or get inspired alone or muster up the courage to do the work alone.
We get better by being around better people. We. As humans are naturally going to push the boundaries. When we see others achieving success, pushing those same boundaries, and the best way to do this is to get in a room with others who have similar goals or who are on similar journeys. And I actually recently invested in a huge.
Financial commitment mastermind with Michael Roderick. So with the person who's hosting this show. And so I'm in this 12 week program with him and we are establishing our thought leadership together. It is truly incredible. There's about nine of us in the mastermind and it pulls me and stretches me and helps me to think outside of my box in so many different ways.
And I just am so grateful for these opportunities that are created for business owners, whether they're young in business and their first one to two years, or whether they're, you know, they're seven, eight figure nine figure entrepreneurs who are joining high level mastermind. These opportunities that exist for all of us to come together and to reach for big goals is absolutely the best thing that I could possibly recommend to anybody listening.
Um, I know a lot of you are inside of our visionary community, so. Little shout out to you. Um, but yeah, if you are someone who is building your online business from zero to 50 K in annual revenue, we have a program for you. So I'll just shamelessly plug the visionary method here. It's the best online community for entrepreneurs who are starting out and learning.
Our seven step system for a successful online business. So get in the room with the people that you can be inspired by. So if you are someone who just started your business, you're putting together your online program, but you need the support, the templates, the tools, the marketing resources to go big.
I'd love to see you inside the community. Go to Kelsey rydall.com/t V M Kelsey rydall.com/tvm. Okay. Not going to pitch you guys anymore. Um, I hope you enjoy this episode. Be sure to screenshot it. If you enjoy it, share it on your Instagram stories. That means a lot in that is the best way you can support the show.
All right, onwards with the episode, and I will see you all next week. Hey visionary. Are you ready to launch your business? If you're looking for a way to get started, we can help. The visionary method is a weekly coaching program that will guide you through the process of launching your business and generating revenue in as little as 20.
We have helped over 100 entrepreneurs, build their businesses from scratch and find community with people just like them. You don't have to do this alone. It doesn't matter if you're an introvert or extrovert young or old experienced or brand new. Our method works for everyone who wants it badly enough.
This isn't about getting rich quick. It's about creating something meaningful that changes. And makes the world a better place. Join us today by heading to Kelsey reidel.com for details or click the link in the show notes and learn more about the visionary method.
All right, welcome back to access to anyone.
I'm your host, Michael Roderick, and we are here with Kelsey Rydall online business and marketing coach Kelsey. Welcome to the.
Thank you for having me. I actually had a chance to interview you a few weeks back. So I'm thrilled to be on the other side. Yeah, I love
these. I love these other side of the mic conversations, right?
It's always so much fun to have a conversation with another podcaster and sort of have that like shifting dynamic. Right? It's a, it's a fascinating thing. So what I always love to start. His origin story. I'm always very, very interested in sort of what it is that moves us into the fields that we end up in.
Like what are those kind of big moments, those big changes. So we'd love to hear just a little bit of your own background and what got you into doing the work that you do now in this online sort of marketing and business.
Yeah, absolutely. So I'll take you back. About 10 years ago, when I enrolled at the Canadian school of natural nutrition.
So I had a hunch that I wanted to practice as a nutritionist, and I went through the program and I absolutely adored it. And upon graduating, I was faced with, well, how are you going to make money now? So I contemplated what nutritionists typically do, which is rent a physical office. See clients one-on-one inside of the four walls of your office and that's pretty much it.
And that was kind of the path that we were guided towards. But as I came closer to graduation day, I just had this hunch that there had to be a better way and just knew I didn't necessarily want to be in. The sterile environment of a clinic. So that's when I really started to think about the one to many model and how could I reach more people through the online world?
So I never ended up pursuing an office space. Like many of my fellow students did, and I began to create things like my website, my social media presence, even though it was really just Facebook back then in. And I started to think about how I could create a group coaching program, where I could take many people through it and reach people from all over the world.
So as I got all that set up, I became pretty enthused with the online marketing world. But. As anyone knows from they're starting an online business, it can be tough to generate a full-time income right away. So instead of putting that pressure on myself to become a full-time nutritionist, I decided to seek work outside of building my business.
So I went on to work for some of Canada's top health food companies. I was exposed to the world of experiential marketing and a position called community manager. And through these roles, I was on the frontline. I was setting up these really neat experiential events all across the city of Toronto and further driving all around Ontario in a branded car.
I was setting up branded tents. We were sampling the product. We were getting people immersed in these brand activations. So similar to how Pepsi used to run the Pepsi taste challenge. And they were getting the sample Pepsi and Coke, and they'd have a fun street team and there'd be music playing and they were never actually selling you anything.
They were just giving you an experience. So that is kind of what I fell into for the better part of about six years working for a couple of different companies. And I loved every minute of it. I thought it was so fascinating that we were developing really deep relationships with people who previously had never even heard of the brand.
We were just meeting them where they were already at, such as at the finish line of a race or in a grocery store or on a busy street corner in Toronto. And we were just asking them a question. Have you tried this product before, or would you like a sample? And then we'd get into this amazing conversation.
They would walk away with a brand and t-shirt, they maybe bought a $70 tub of protein and it was just fun. Like that to me was one of the most enjoyable career paths I could have ever imagined. But lo and behold, I found myself, uh, let go from one of my dream job. After about six years in the industry.
And I really started to zoom the lens back and think, well, how could I reactivate my nutrition in business? Cause I've always wanted to be in business for myself. Um, so I, I thought, you know, I could use a little more formal training and as I found myself out of work, I decided to throw myself. First into a very popular online marketing program and they teach coaches and consultants how to sell, using a lot of tactics like scarcity and time sensitivity and charging a high ticket price.
And much as I learned a lot of how to scale my nutrition business, I found the whole experience a little bit. Sleazy and it just,
and it just never really resonated with me, but people were hopped up on this stuff and people pay tens of thousands of dollars into this program. And so again, learned a lot about online marketing, but from a very like pushy. Um, just, it felt heavy to me. And so as I got back to my nutrition business and started to think about attracting more people and, and really getting referrals from previous successful clients, I started to think back to my days in experiential market.
Why was I able to use such organic marketing when I was selling someone else's product yet, when it came to selling my nutrition packages, I felt like I had to look outside of myself to these very like icky strategies. And so as I started to reflect on a lot of the time that I had spent in XM or experiential marketing, I thought back to things like relationship building, giving a sample, uh, being curious.
Um, inviting people for a free trial of your product following up, giving them branded swag. And these were all things that they really did excite me. And so I switched to my marketing strategy in the process. I also read. I was no longer interested in talking about food with people. I wanted to talk about real, no BS, marketing strategies for fellow health and wellness and service-based business owners.
And so I scrapped my nutrition programs and I created something totally new called the visionary method, which really does help people to zero in on those marketing strategies that are time honored. They are innovative. They don't feel sleazy. And at the end of the day, they work in growing your business.
So that's a little bit about my story. I love
it. I love it. And there's so many things to unpack there. Um, but the, the very first thing that I think a lot of us forget about, or don't necessarily think about is this aspect of as an entrepreneur, it does not need to be all about. I think there there's a lot of messaging out there that is, is, you know, very burdened the boats, if you will.
Right. Um, where it's, it's all about the idea of, well, start your online business and make a full-time income and live, you know, in all these different types of things. And a lot of that is sold to us through. More sort of sleazy, you know, it's sort of marketing channels. And what you're bringing up is a really, really important point, which is if you were going to be experimenting with a new business model and you don't necessarily know how it's going to work out, there's absolutely nothing wrong with identifying another type of job that you would enjoy that will give you a lot of experience that will help figure things out.
And sort of live in that world for a while. And, uh, I think that that's something that often just isn't addressed, but it is showing so important for entrepreneurs to understand that there is no shame in the concept of the side hustle, as opposed to the, like, this is everything, this is my business. Uh, and I think that that's such an important thing to just always kind of be remembering and thinking.
But the other piece of this that I think is really important is the fact that when you were in the experimental marketing world and you sort of were doing all of these things, you learn these, I liked first of them as white label skills, right. Skills that we sort of take to other industries and they work for those other industries.
You developed a series of white label skills that really ended up helping your nutrition business and your marketing prowess, and sort of really built in. A lot of elements by basically working in a tangential industry, right. By doing something a little different than what was sort of normally being done in these other markets.
So I think that that's also a really important thing to say, like where else can you learn from, as opposed to just these like main channels of online marketing and sort of that, um, you know, that side of things in that, uh, in that particular process. So, yeah, I think, you know, one of the things that pops up for me.
Is I think a lot about the idea of market sophistication, right. And sort of people get to a point where they've been sold to so many times and they've been sold to in many cases in that sleazy way that you're talking about, that it makes them very, very gun shy. So when you started to kind of work into this.
Online marketing world. And you started to build a business around that and helping these people in the online marketing space. What hurdles did you have to overcome when it came to the sophistication of the market you were selling to?
Yeah, being that I am primarily rooted in the health and the holistic wellness space, just because that's whose business I understand inside out, I've been through it before.
I find that so many people in that space, they are simply trying to look at how others in their industry are building their business. And then they think they need to copy cat those very same strategies. And so there's a few dominant voices in our industry that are. The only way to build your successful practice is through the webinars sales method, or there's another prominent figure that says the best way to grow your business is to be running expensive Facebook ads, or, you know, the list can go on and on, but there are certainly a few prominent marketing strategies that are constantly being told to health and wellness practitioners as this is the cure.
All pill. To your problem of not having a thriving practice. And so one of the challenges that I face, and honestly I continue to face is that people are looking for a sexy, quick fix to whatever problem it is that they are currently encountering. And when I look at a lot of the philosophies that I teach.
Such as referrals, relationship building, um, being charismatic about your offer, things like that, they take time, right? And they also take a person who is willing to. Put in the thought and the intention and to be experimental, to actually get these strategies implemented and to assess which ones work and which ones don't.
But like I said, at the beginning, these are time honored strategies, like word of mouth and referral are not new. They are not super sexy, but oh my goodness. They work like magic. When you actually look at where a lot of health and wellness practitioners are finding their next. It's through referral. So why do none of us have referral strategies?
So I'd say the biggest hurdle that I encounter every single day is showing people that these strategies, though not super sexy in a, in a it's going to solve your problem. 48 hours. They are absolutely necessary. And so it's the problem solving for the, sell them what they want and give them what they need.
Because a lot of people's ears don't perk up. When I say let's build you a referral strategy, but when somebody hears. Setting up a gorgeously designed sales funnel is going to solve their problems there. They're more drawn towards that because I think we like that quick fix solution. So that's the biggest hurdle that I am problem solving for on a daily basis is to show people.
These are so needed and under
talked about. Yeah, I think the challenge and I see this across the board in the, in the marketing world is that, uh, I've I have a friend who, uh, had a really great line that he would always say to me to another coach. And he would say, you know, all the things that are really good for marketing are usually really bad for real life.
And like, it just all has always resonated. Right. Because a lot of the things that are structured in marketing are really around this idea that there is a quick fix, that there is a magic pill, that there is something that's going to solve, you know, solve the problem instantly. Uh, but one of the things that I've learned and you've probably seen this yourself, is that when you structure your message that way, or when you present that particular idea, you usually end up with really bad clients.
You know, people are just, you know, they're expecting the magic pill, right? They're expecting you to fix everything all in one shot and no matter how good you are as a practitioner, that's just not a very realistic scenario. Right to, to, to basically be like, yes, I'm going to solve your problem overnight.
Right. Uh, so I think that that's something that comes up quite a bit, but I also think it's really powerful and I've seen some people in the marketing world do this very, very well to remind people of the fact that most people ignore fundamentals. And even in favor of all the shiny new stuff.
Yeah. And I think like my mission is to break down that stereotype that it is the next shiny object that's going to solve all of your business problems.
And instead to zoom the lens back and let's look at your business, like we're in it for the long haul, like what are the things, the foundational elements that you need to understand as a business owner? So that you can have the generation working on autopilot, but not through some sort of system that is dangling in front of you.
Yeah,
I think, uh, I think that's a great point and I think it's a very important fight. Right? I think that, um, you know, the truth tellers in any industry have the harder fight. They have the bigger hill to climb. In many cases, because the true tellers in an industry are basically letting people know these pie in the sky dreams that people are trying to sell.
You are not real, right? Like we're the ones pulling the curtain back and saying, no, there's a, there's somebody behind there. There isn't a way, you know, there, there isn't a wizard and that's, you know, that's a tough role for a lot of people to take on. So it makes perfect sense that a lot of folks sort of just shift to this more.
Sort of quick fix, if you will, kind of, you know, marketing model, because if we really break it down, if we're, if we get really, really serious, what is the percentage of people who are willing to do real work versus just have a silent.
I think it's low, to be honest, like when I work with a lot of people, I really like to ask them, like, are you in this for the long haul?
Because it takes work to build up a brand that has that recognition. And I just think, uh, it takes a lot of persistence and dedication and. Often why people they quit or they stepped back from their business in the first few years. And I think it's interesting that you say the word truth teller, because I've never really identified, um, as that in the marketing world, but the more I see what is out there and what people are being drawn to, which is these kinds of quick fix strategies, I think I am coming at it from an opposite perspective.
And so it's like, I hate to tell people the truth of what really. But from all of my studying and learning, and even just from running my business for the past five years, like these are the principles that are not going away. So we need to talk about them more. And as smart business owners, we need to have strategies behind them as.
Yeah. So looking back at your, you know, at your own journey, is there anything that pops up for you as it was actually surprising to you? When it did work, you were testing something out and you were just like, wow, I did not ever think that this thing would surprise me in this way or would really sort of help, you know, in terms of growing the business or, or, or building the brand.
Yeah, I think one of the biggest, I guess, two things actually. So first thing is the art of fascination and. I don't mean being a fascinating person because I don't think many of us think we're all that fascinating, especially if we're studying behind a laptop most days, but I mean, being fascinated by other people.
So it kind of reminds me of this quote of being interested to be interesting. So you don't have to be an interesting person. You have to be interested in others. How I essentially move people through my quote unquote sales funnel is I develop a relationship with them. And then I get into conversation, whether that's on the phone, text message, Facebook messenger, Instagram, DNS, there's a million ways to talk to people these days.
And I asked about their life and I want to know about their goals and their dreams. And I never say a single thing about myself or my programs. I'm just getting the ball rolling and eventually in a conversation like. Someone will inherently turn the table around and ask you, well, tell me more about what you do or what are you working on right now?
So I find that that is one thing that it sounds so simple, but many people walk around thinking about their own life. And then when they get into conversation, they kind of just talk about themselves. They dump on other people and they forget to ask. Questions to the other person. So at the root of that, I would say, get really good at starting up conversations with people and making it all about them.
That is always where the sales start for me is just being inherently curious. And then the second thing that has surprised me and how well it is supported the growth of my business. Is being charismatic again, something that is not revolutionary, like you're probably not going, oh my gosh, I've never thought about that before.
But when I look back at some of my earliest YouTube videos, when I listened to my earliest podcasts from three, four years ago, I hear a different. Charisma coming from my voice and it's shaky and it's not there. And I don't even sound that excited about my own dang product. And that's a problem, especially for us service providers who are the face of our brand.
We don't often have the ability to hire a spokesperson or to hire a team of brand ambassadors who are out on the front lines, promoting our business. So often it falls back on the practitioner or the owner of the business. And so when you're out there talking about your product or service, but you don't even sound that excited about it, you don't even have that charisma in your voice, that smile from ear to ear people.
Aren't going to pick up on that. They can't share in that excitement. I always think you need to be the biggest supporter of your own brand in the early days, because the truth is nobody else cares in the first year, starting your business. So if you're not out there acting like the spokesperson, the person who's being paid millions of dollars to get in front of an audience and be excited and to have infectious energy.
Nobody else is going to listen. And I, I, again, I don't think many people talk about that because not super, um, revolutionary, but I think charisma is so, so important, especially in the first few years of your business when it's just you and you don't have a lot of testimonials to support your service,
you see you bringing up two things I think are really, really important.
On the surface. Yes. You're always going to have people that are going to hear that and say, oh, well, you know, that's nothing new, but honestly there's actually a lot of nuance to both of those things. Right? So the first is the fact that when you are asking people questions, you are actually showing your expertise as opposed to telling them your expertise.
Because if you're able to ask them really, really good questions, the next thought they have is like, how is it possible that you can understand this so well, and that you're asking me the questions that are helping me discover new things, right? So when you do that, that aspect of being curious and really sort of digging into what somebody's goals and dreams are, and what they're trying to accomplish you in essence are helping them understand new things many times, just by the questions that your.
So, so that is a way to show value as opposed to tell people about value. And I see a lot of entrepreneurs basically try to tell about value. They try to tell you like, this is my program and this is what it will do for you and all these things. And our natural state, when somebody tries to tell us what they can do for us is to instantly distrust it because we don't know them.
Right. We don't know necessarily if they. But if we're, if they're asking us really good questions and they're getting us to think, and in just that interaction of answering the questions, we have some kind of transformational moment, or we have some moment where like, wow, I never thought about it that way then yes, the tables are gonna turn.
And we're going to say like, what would happen? If I worked with you more. Right? So like that, that curiosity ends up coming up, you know, as a result of that. And then the second piece that you talked about with this charisma aspect is this, you know, dynamic of, I think that a lot of the time people kind of look at, they hear the word charisma, or they hear the word excitement and they think they've gotta be like the cheer.
Right. Like, they think they've gotta be this like big and sort of bold, but the thing is you can be completely reserved and have more charisma than the person who's shouting. And it comes down to your belief in the product and your belief in what you have, you know, in, in what you have to say. So, you know, that aspect of, you know, the point that you touched on that I think is the most important that as people are out there, if you're listening.
You have to believe in your product. You can present that product. However you want. It's up to you. How, like what your style is, you know, if you're the big bold person who's like very loud and smiling and everything fantastic. But. If you're the quiet person, as long as you truly believe in that product, you can be the, you know, speak softly and carry a big stick with your marketing.
You know, like you can be that as long as you believe in your product. So, so I think those are two very, very important, uh, in very, very, very important topics for people as they're starting to think about their own business and their process, I would love to hear in your opinion, you've spent a lot of time in this online world.
What do you think is probably one of the biggest misconceptions about. Online marketing. That's
a great question. Um, I'll say something that's quite topical, especially with the audience of people that I work with, but I think one of the greatest misconceptions is that you need to have a large audience on social media.
So people think they need to have 5,000 followers, 20,000 followers, 3000 followers in order to have a successful business. But I always like to think of it as. You're a service provider you sell? Um, maybe you're a naturopathic doctor. Okay. So you want to help women with their fertility, uh, but perhaps you don't have the audience of women built up yet, but you know, you have an amazing service.
So the misconception of, I need to have a really massive audience is something that I always try to help people break down because. When we flip that to thinking, okay, so I don't have the audience necessarily, but I know I have a great skillset, but who else has the audience of people who else has an audience of moms who, um, you know, are looking for fertility advice that I can instead put my amazing content in front of them.
So there's this constant nagging feeling for early stage online entrepreneurs. I have to build my audience. How do I use hashtags? How do I get more followers? Can I buy followers? And they're missing out on an opportunity to simply tap into existing audience. Maybe it's an existing Facebook group. Maybe it's an influencer who already has a community of moms.
Maybe it's, um, someone else who's a prominent figure in the fertility world. Why not go to that? Foster a partnership, especially in the online world. Like your podcast is called, you have access to anyone. So go find a relationship with them. And before you have the audience that you desire that really large audience that you'd like to be reaching from your own platinum.
Focus on partnerships, use people who have existing audiences see how you can put your content in front of them in a way that makes sense for both the person whose platform it is as well as for you. So I would say that's the biggest misconception is that people, they try to bend over backwards to get their first thousands of followers or viewers.
And they're trying to bring people to a platform that is in the early stages. Where instead you could partner and then establish a reputation and naturally people will come over to your platform because now they trust you because you've been introduced through someone else's established platform.
Yeah. I, I love that. I've, uh, I've often referred to that as going to the landowner as opposed to going door to door. Right where it's like, you just find somebody who already has that audience and you partner with them in some way, and you present your expertise to their audience. And then those people basically, you know, they self-select right.
They decide who do they want to be around. They, they decide if they want to listen to more of your stuff or sort of pay attention to more of your information. And, you know, I'm also a very, very big believer in, in being very careful about building on other, you know, other people's land, like having these like walled gardens, as they're often referred to where it's like, if you have a massive following on a platform, you don't own that planet.
Right. So like, you don't own those names. You don't like the, like they could shut you down for any number of reasons. So, so I am very, very bullish on you want to do what you can to build your own place for people to come and listen to you. You know, for me, it's a mailing list, right. For me, it's like, yeah, You know, write a daily email and that's how people sort of stay in mind world.
But you know, the other piece that you're bringing up that I think is so, so important. And I've discussed this on the show a couple of times before is the aspect of reach versus depth. And, and so, so often we get so obsessed with the idea of reach and we have this belief that if we have thousands of followers on a particular platform, if we're, if we have this massive audience on.
Any number of platforms then that is the path to, to riches. But the fact of the matter is if a tiny percentage of that audience is even the slightest bit interested in what we have to offer, who knows what that actually means. Like we are, we're not in constant communication with them. We don't know like what that level of conversion is going, is going to be.
But if we have even a small group of 500. Who are listening to us on a regular basis who are paying attention, who are hearing from us, you know, multiple times. And they're part of our own, you know, community, they're going to be way more likely to convert. There's going to be way more opportunity in the depth that you create, as opposed to being worried about that reach.
So I love the fact that you brought.
Yeah, I think we all need to get over the vanity metrics. Those obviously worked at a time. You see someone with a lot of followers, they had that reach and you would just assume that their content was really great. But nowadays I'm paying attention to people's depth.
Like you say, like they may have 500 followers on Instagram, for example, but they're getting 200. A hundred comments that is quality. Okay. You can find that many people in the online world who are selling you courses based on these vanity metrics that they have 10,000 followers. But then when you do a little digging, you'll notice that their engagement is really low.
They don't get a lot of comments, uh, and it just proves your point. Yeah. Reach versus depth that it's not always about having massive reach in order to have a very successful business and an audience of people who
care. Yeah. And we talked a little bit at the beginning about sort of the aspect of you went through one of these sort of online courses that kind of brought the sleeves.
Right. And that is something that happens to a lot of people. A lot of people end up getting hoodwinked. A lot of people end up getting a, you know, Into debt in many cases by the promise of riches, right. It's, it's, it's kind of fascinating that, you know, somebody can actually spend six figures because they're being sold that they can get seven.
Right. Um, and I've seen this a lot. So what I'm always curious about is the process that people take to sort of evaluate their service providers, right? Like, how do you think about. In your own life now, how do you think about this process of like, where do you spend your money when there are so many, like, it, it is very much a casino, right?
And there are a lot of places where it's like, you're really, if you pay, play penny slots, you're still gonna lose. You know what I mean? Like, like lots and lots of times. So it's like, how do you think about your own process of sort of evaluating where you're going to spend your money and space like this.
Yeah, it's a good question because of course there's a lot going on. When you seek out any sort of coach or program or consultant, you are met with hundreds and hundreds of pages of Google search results and get a bit overwhelming. And so I think going back to my story of investing a lot of money in that really expensive marketing program, I was swayed at the time, by the promise of a result, uh, seeking outside of myself for somebody else to promise me what I could do.
And I was expecting that their formula that was listed on the landing page and the guaranteed results that they were presenting. I thought great. If I just buy this program that gets me the result. But the more I have matured and gone through many courses, I've realized that results are not guaranteed, right.
It is the effort that we put in, but also the program has to be aligned. With you as a person, you as an entrepreneur. And so I think as we get to know ourselves a little bit more, and as we start to be comfortable with self expression as a form of marketing, um, Some people might be like, what the heck is that?
But truly just looking at who you are as a person and becoming more of that in the way that you share your products and services with the world, it takes a lot of getting to know yourself and looking at what makes you unique and maybe looking at. What you were made fun of as a kid and trying to infuse that into your marketing strategies.
And so now for me, I'm not hiring people based on a promised results because. The truth is that's not guaranteed. Right? You can follow the framework and it may not work for you because it is totally misaligned. So nowadays I'm going for the gut feeling. I'm also going to the person who has built a business with integrity.
Uh, with honesty who gives off an energy of, I know who I am and I've built a business that truly reflects the lifestyle I want and the person I want to become. Um, and if they exude those qualities and if I have that gut feeling that this is the direction that I also want to head, then that's who I invest my money.
Yeah,
I think you're bringing up a really important point, which is this aspect of the results, uh, and sort of the way that kind of people we'll often frame things as like you will get this, you will get this result. And of course, in our marketing and the stuff that we present, we want to give people something tangible.
We want to be able to say like, there is something at the end of this, but we also want to be honest, that results really do vary and they vary based on so many things. Different factors. So it's, it's very hard to promise somebody that they're going to have the same result as somebody else. Right. Uh, and it's, and in many cases, it's one of those things that for me, at least sort of causes a sense of distrust, right?
Like if somebody says I've done this and you can do it too, I'm instantly suspicious because I'm not. Right. Like, I didn't, I don't have their base of relationships. I don't have their expertise. I don't know as much as they do. But if somebody says, here are a number of people, here are the results that they've had.
Your results are going to vary based on the work that you put in, in the market. That you're a part of. And a lot of other factors, I actually trust that person more. Right. And those are the people that I usually end up buying from the ones who basically are, are upfront about the fact that your result, like your mileage is going to vary based on a lot of different factors, you know, because it doesn't feel like fluff to me, it feels like they're saying, like I have something it can help.
Uh, but I'm not telling you that it's going to S you know, that that is going to save your life because I don't know what you're gonna do. You know, I don't know how hard you're going to work. I don't know what that's going to look like. I don't know what connections and relationships you already have that are gonna, you know, move this thing forward or not move this thing forward.
So I think that that's such a great point that you're bringing up. I also think that the point of trusting your gut, I think that's at the heart of so much in terms of relationships, if you're having a conversation with somebody in you and you feel in your gut, that it just doesn't feel right, or it feels awkward, or it feels like it's just kind of off like trust.
Because there are a lot of people out there they're very good at the they're very good at the clothes, you know, marketing sort of side of all of this. And you know, you may have that twinge in your gut. That's saying this isn't the best thing, but they're presenting you with this result or they're presenting you with this operation.
And sometimes that can hijack everything. So it's really, really important to pay attention to those, you know, to those types of things. Cause I've definitely encountered people who they'll teach others. Um, you're going to want to, you know, going back to those sleazy marketing tactics, it's like, you're gonna want to get them to like say yes on the phone right away.
And it's like that to me is just. Scary, because what happens to the person who is just a very impulsive, you know, person who then makes that purchase on the phone and then has like a boatload of her grad after that, do you want that person as a client? Like it doesn't, you know, it doesn't make any sense in my personal opinion.
Totally.
And I don't think that that is going to be a good long-term relationship. Like, yes, I want someone to make their first sale with me, but I want. Uh, a sustained relationship so that when I launch future programs, that they're the first ones lining up. And when somebody is instantly regretting the money they spent with you, that's not a great way to start off the relationship.
And I want to say too, that I'm not mad that I spent all that money on this very kind of sleazy marketing program that I went through because it really gave me. Contrast of what I didn't want to be teaching in the future. If I pivoted into doing more marketing coaching. And it's funny because I noticed that a lot of the people who check the program, they ended up duplicating exactly what was taught inside the program and kind of creating their own model of the exact same framework.
So I'm really glad that. There's something within me. That's a bit of a rebel at heart because I've essentially just taken their framework, turned it upside down, taken it right back to these time, honored marketing principles. And I know I'm having equal or more success than a lot of the people who are still teaching.
Um, that framework. So, you know, it, it taught me a lot and if anything, it taught me how I didn't want to build my business.
Yeah. And you're bringing up something that I think is really, really important as well. And if you're out there and you're listening and thinking about your own, maybe, uh, purchases that you're kind of looking back on and saying, wow, like that was really sleazy or that was.
Why did I end up, you know, sort of a part of that, uh, there's really no such thing as sort of sunk cost fallacy when you learn from the experience. Right? So it's like, if you've had a bad experience with something, it can either be that thing that you're always kind of like, oh man, I can't believe I did that.
Or it can be that thing that really helps you understand in your case, Kelsey, what you don't want. Um, and sort of give you a north star to be able to say, like, these are the things that I want to shoot for, because I don't want to have, you know, these things, these sleazy tactics in my work, right. Like, you know, I, I understand the principles and the ideas.
So I'm going to focus on those principles, but I'm not going to do it in this, this specific way that somebody else has. You know, coach me, or sort of tried to teach me a to do, because that's not what I believe in. So I think that that's a really, really important point that you're bringing up, which is that sometimes these bad experiences can help you get even clearer on yourself and like what you're about and what you're sort of fighting against, uh, in a, you know, in a particular industry.
So I think that that's just a.
Um, I heard a quote the other day that said, um, before there was marketing, there was common sense. And I think that, um, it really resonated with me because what I do at the end of the day is I bring people back home to like what's inside of them already as a marketer. Like we all have the ability to sell our products.
We know where to find our dream clients. We know how to speak that offer in a way they understand, but we get so caught up in everything else that people are trying to tell us. So I like to just lead people
back home. Yeah. I love, I love that. So it's very much that sort of Darthy like you've been wearing the shoes the whole time.
You get your back kind of thing. I love that. I love that. So we are starting to get close to the end of our time together. And there's a question that I ask every single guest, but before I get. If folks are listening and they're thinking, wow, Kelsey is, is fighting against the tide of all of the BS that has been sort of, uh, assaulting.
My sense is from, you know, the things I'm reading on the book of faces and the, and all of the, you know, the social, the social media craziness. I need more of her in my life. Where should they go? And what should the.
Yeah, absolutely. So the best way to find me is likely on Instagram, just at Kelsey Reidel, or you can find my website, which has tons of free, no BS, marketing resources, all completely yours to download.
So that's just Kelsey reidel.com.
I love it. And that will be in the show notes for you folks and Kelsey, as you know, the name of the show is called access to anyone. So there is a question that I ask every single guest who comes on. And that question is if you could have access to anyone, you got a chance to sit down with anyone in the world that you like.
They have to be living. Who would that one person.
Great question. So I don't know if anyone will know who this is, but he's one of the top podcasters in the health and wellness space. So a man named rich roll. Um, I've been following his podcast for about eight years and he has built this massive global brand.
Totally organically by sharing incredible weekly content, never missing a week, really finding ways to pull the community together, never asking for anything. Uh, but yet has become wildly successful doing something he loves and building a brand in a way that aligns with his family. And I just think it's incredible.
So I'm constantly shouting out his podcast because it truly was a catalyst for me. Start my own show to realize you can build community. Sharing everything you love in life and sharing conversations with other amazing people. So rich roll would be my
choice. I love that. Uh, so folks, if, uh, you enrich or are hanging out having a socially distanced coffee, or maybe, you know, just taking a long walk, Kelsey would love to hear from you.
So. So definitely, definitely reach out and connect. Uh, and again, Kelsey, thank you so much for coming on the show. So much great stuff here. So much information that I think, uh, isn't spoken about very, very often and needs to be heard. So really appreciate you being a truth teller in the industry and getting these ideas out there and coming on the show.
Thank you so much for having us. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of visionary life. I love bringing you these conversations on a weekly basis. So it would mean so much to me. If you could help me out by rating and reviewing the show in your iTunes app, you can also support the show by taking a quick screenshot.
And sharing it on your Instagram stories, tagging me at Kelsey rival. I'll catch you in the next step. So yes, whenever you're ready, there's a couple of ways that I can support you. So, first thing, if you're ready to make your first or next $50,000 in business. Explore how the visionary method business coaching experience can accelerate your growth.
There'll be a link in the show notes. Also, if you're feeling lost, confused, or overwhelmed, when it comes to starting an online business, reach out and book a free revision call with me, I'll offer you customized recommendations on how to get unstuck so you can live a life filled with joy, happiness, and 50.